ok basiscally here is your whole argument in a nutshell for the non-existence of god, and is very solid. first of all the word god in a modern sense, implies omnipotentence. a non-omnipotent god would be not much different than a leader of a country or a CEO of some huge world corporation. look at the world around you. disease, famine, genocide, and country music. omnipotentence is pure good, as well as all knowing and all powerful. this god has obviously created evil if he has created this world. and if one was to argue that evil is the work of satan, then your god is no more powerful than satan as the evil would have been expunged by his awesome power, and obviously not omnipotent.
and here is the kicker. let's supposed this omnipotent god does exist, and has created everything, and all the frills. now he gave you the capacity to reason all of these ideas and experiences to the conclusion of his non-existence. who is truly responsible for your conclusion? yourself or god? and of some dolt were to respond with yourself, then proceed to ask him/her why we don't give mentally challenge people ak47s. also even if you are responsible, are you really in the wrong for choosing to stick with your reasoning? this god glorifies all that his followers to consider wrong. things like greed and the degredation of women. read his damn book. it's all in there. this god also has no problems with, racism, intolerence of his own children, and people who advocate his teachings yet don't follow them (a true christian is supposed to give away his wealth and live in poverty, that's in the book too (limbaugh, robertson, o'reily, etc)). would you really be of sound mind to worship such a tyrant, or even stand ideally by as he terrorizes this country, and world? i couldn't, and don't think i'm just picking on the chrisitan god. all gods are false gods. if a being exists on this plane, it is no higher in power than any other being. cockroachs may not possess the power to invent nulcear weapons, but they are the only creature that could survive them. humans cannot fly and must rely on their intellect to survive. no average human could fend off a vicious animal without a modern weapon. there were always be balance, and that is why humilty should be the only thing you should hold as high as godliness. something, somewhere, somehow will always have a shot at being greater than what you are or will become. none of these religions teach humilty, and that is for a reason. the humble person will not blindly follow an ideal, and he will not be as so overzealous to suspend his investigations. yet this humble individual will always listen to even the more extravagant of arguments, and will always admit to himself that he is just a small gear in the big machine. he knows he can, and will be replaced if he breaks. he does not obsess of the immortal soul and worry about death. he knows his part and will play it how it is supposed to be played.
if you want to worship something, try the sun, or water, perhaps even electricity. these things we could not truly live without; all of our records are electric now. pay homage to oxygen, or the animals and plants that provide you with means to live. don't waste your time with god. and if i meet him when i die, i can't wait to give him the middle finger, that he gave me when i was "created."
sorry that took so much space dave. i just wanted to clarify my posistion. and i would like to say that it makes me happy that people still take time to discuss things of interest and value. carry on good sir.
no please, use as much space as you want, you're probably the only person with that much to say and provide a clear and concise argument.
Anyways, my point is that there is no scientific evidence. None, the only thing we have close to that is the fact that everything is fine tuned in a way, as in atomic weights and the like, that existence would not be possible if it were slightly off. But, who is to say that this universe didn't happen a million, billion, trillion times to get to were it is now. Who said that we are the first, or even the last for that matter.
And I never thought that God was this nice character guy. I knew He was capable of evil as much as He is good. I don't think "satan" existed at all. Morality was defined by humanity, not God. Godd killed lots of people, and forced His followers to kill others, then he goes ahead and makes a commandment not to kil? Under what circumstances, what were the rules? Could someone kill someone I love but I couldn't kill them for fear of eternal damnation? It makes no sense when you look at the fine print. He used to be all about us, then because a few people make some mistakes, he tells us to fuck of until His son comes back to wipe us all out, in a story that takes MANY liberties with reality. He gave us the capacity to be evil, then expects us not to be. But if you say some incantation befoe you die, it all is forgivin? WHats the point of making rules and laws if there is no point in following them. It's like stealing a car, but as long as you say you're sorry, you get off scott free.
My view has nothing to do with "Oh, well if there's evil in the world, then God dosen't care/not exist." I can take the evil, there needs to be some sort off balance. You can't have everyone living forever and being nice all the time. It's an impossiblity. The needs to be mayhem and anarchy. There needs to be serial killers an drunk drivers. We need pestilence as much as we need security. SOme people live a shitty life so we can have a good one. For what little all life is really worth anyways.
My point is God = Non existent. Until someone can prove otherwise, my faith lies in nothing.
that's a good way to look at it. although you will have some problems with some rationalists. empiricists would agree with you 100%, but unfortunatly the nature of science is to falsify. this however doesn't solidify any kind of future results, as science is mostly used as a tool to predict results. all of the conclusions are based entirely on previously collect data and experimentation. until we collect data, there is no way to be 100% certain that a "god" gene won't pop up randomly. that is the b.s. that rationalists will try and feed you. most rationalists are just that, rationalists. but some read descartes and think that his super scepticism is awesome and will try and come from his angle, which by the way, is illogical and he is why when you beg the question, or use circular "illogic" they call it a Cartisan circle. there is no scientific evidence of god and there never will be. yet, i am always refining my rational arguments on why god could not exist. that way, you shup everyone up if they didn't take the time to make a sound and reasonable theory.
and here is the kicker. let's supposed this omnipotent god does exist, and has created everything, and all the frills. now he gave you the capacity to reason all of these ideas and experiences to the conclusion of his non-existence. who is truly responsible for your conclusion? yourself or god? and of some dolt were to respond with yourself, then proceed to ask him/her why we don't give mentally challenge people ak47s. also even if you are responsible, are you really in the wrong for choosing to stick with your reasoning? this god glorifies all that his followers to consider wrong. things like greed and the degredation of women. read his damn book. it's all in there. this god also has no problems with, racism, intolerence of his own children, and people who advocate his teachings yet don't follow them (a true christian is supposed to give away his wealth and live in poverty, that's in the book too (limbaugh, robertson, o'reily, etc)). would you really be of sound mind to worship such a tyrant, or even stand ideally by as he terrorizes this country, and world? i couldn't, and don't think i'm just picking on the chrisitan god. all gods are false gods. if a being exists on this plane, it is no higher in power than any other being. cockroachs may not possess the power to invent nulcear weapons, but they are the only creature that could survive them. humans cannot fly and must rely on their intellect to survive. no average human could fend off a vicious animal without a modern weapon. there were always be balance, and that is why humilty should be the only thing you should hold as high as godliness. something, somewhere, somehow will always have a shot at being greater than what you are or will become. none of these religions teach humilty, and that is for a reason. the humble person will not blindly follow an ideal, and he will not be as so overzealous to suspend his investigations. yet this humble individual will always listen to even the more extravagant of arguments, and will always admit to himself that he is just a small gear in the big machine. he knows he can, and will be replaced if he breaks. he does not obsess of the immortal soul and worry about death. he knows his part and will play it how it is supposed to be played.
if you want to worship something, try the sun, or water, perhaps even electricity. these things we could not truly live without; all of our records are electric now. pay homage to oxygen, or the animals and plants that provide you with means to live. don't waste your time with god. and if i meet him when i die, i can't wait to give him the middle finger, that he gave me when i was "created."
sorry that took so much space dave. i just wanted to clarify my posistion. and i would like to say that it makes me happy that people still take time to discuss things of interest and value. carry on good sir.
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Anyways, my point is that there is no scientific evidence. None, the only thing we have close to that is the fact that everything is fine tuned in a way, as in atomic weights and the like, that existence would not be possible if it were slightly off. But, who is to say that this universe didn't happen a million, billion, trillion times to get to were it is now. Who said that we are the first, or even the last for that matter.
And I never thought that God was this nice character guy. I knew He was capable of evil as much as He is good. I don't think "satan" existed at all. Morality was defined by humanity, not God. Godd killed lots of people, and forced His followers to kill others, then he goes ahead and makes a commandment not to kil? Under what circumstances, what were the rules? Could someone kill someone I love but I couldn't kill them for fear of eternal damnation? It makes no sense when you look at the fine print. He used to be all about us, then because a few people make some mistakes, he tells us to fuck of until His son comes back to wipe us all out, in a story that takes MANY liberties with reality. He gave us the capacity to be evil, then expects us not to be. But if you say some incantation befoe you die, it all is forgivin? WHats the point of making rules and laws if there is no point in following them. It's like stealing a car, but as long as you say you're sorry, you get off scott free.
My view has nothing to do with "Oh, well if there's evil in the world, then God dosen't care/not exist." I can take the evil, there needs to be some sort off balance. You can't have everyone living forever and being nice all the time. It's an impossiblity. The needs to be mayhem and anarchy. There needs to be serial killers an drunk drivers. We need pestilence as much as we need security. SOme people live a shitty life so we can have a good one. For what little all life is really worth anyways.
My point is God = Non existent. Until someone can prove otherwise, my faith lies in nothing.
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