OK here we go, another controversial joeydiablo comment.joeydiabloFebruary 19 2013, 02:47:03 UTC
I am glad and actually surprised that they were so accepting of your sexuality at this con.
Unfortunately I do see a lot of homophobia in the black community. Not because Dan Savage something or other, but because I work in HIV primary care, and I see it with my own eyes.
So many of my patients harbor such internalized homophobia, they still won't admit they are gay. Not to mention the stigma that goes with HIV. There is no open discussion around HIV, and no open discussion about safe sex choices and options for gay men. If you could hear some of the teaching I do.
Unfortunately the majority of our new diagnoses are young black men. Men who are trying to find their place in a homophobic home environment and trying to find their place in a caucasian-centric gay culture that is often uninclusive or at best objectifying. Don't even get me started on why I would NEVER travel to Jamaica or Uganda.
So, sounds like a great con! Glad you had a good time.
Interesting that black geeks are more accepting of gays vs. white geeks in the south who I find often homophobic. I think it's the whole appeal of so much sci fi and comics to the teenage "boobies" and objectification of women mentality that brings that sort person to the con scene. That's why I lurve me some outlantacons.
Why Joeydiablo needs to have a seatneo_prodigyFebruary 19 2013, 03:01:07 UTC
And this is where you're fucking up yet again, which I think we both knew.
No one is disputing that homophobia exists in the black community. But by no means does it even compare to the rampant unchecked homophobia that pervades white culture.
Just because your job puts you in touch with a small portion of black people, you still know nothing of our people and our culture. And quite frankly you aren't qualified to say anything. Because the fact of the matter is, I know plenty of white gays who wouldn't even step into an HIV primary care facility. So maybe your purview is fucked up yet again.
Especially if I haven't heard a peep after the countless examples of white homophobia that's keeping LGBTQs from actually gaining equal rights.
So spare me your racist bullshit, because that shit isn't even getting co-signed.
Re: Why Joeydiablo needs to have a seatneo_prodigyFebruary 19 2013, 03:19:40 UTC
Because like you said, those are the reported cases. Think of the HIV infections and cases that DON'T get reported, with blacks being only a small portion of the LGBTQ "community" it stands to reason that the vast majority of would still be white folks.
In regards to relating, I would advise you to do your research and read the words of actual black queers and our dealings with the misinformation that gets spread about black culture and gayness.
Because I can tell you right now, most of the shit that you and others hear, is wrong.
Re: Why Joeydiablo needs to have a seatjoeydiabloFebruary 19 2013, 03:25:12 UTC
I do read and constantly. The stats are true unfortunately. All cases get reported to the CDC and it is the gay black youths who are most affected right now. In fact for the black community they may be underreported.
It is actually quite difficult to find out HIV positive black men in media. Besides Magic Johnson When he came out as HIV positive what was the first thing people thought that "he's gay"?
Someone recommended we do an article on young black HIV positive men and we said absolutely not. We don't live in that world. It would be foolish.
I am asking your opinion on how to relate. From your perspective.
Re: Why Joeydiablo needs to have a seatneo_prodigyFebruary 19 2013, 03:33:11 UTC
"I do read and constantly."
And yet you still managed to take the time to scribble some ignorant and racist shit on my fucking Livejournal page.
"All cases get reported to the CDC "
Now you and I both know damn well that folks hook up all the time spread HIV and other STDs and that shit doesn't get reported because for many of them they may not even know they're infected.
You asking for my opinion from my perspective.
1) If you come off half as condescending and arrogant with such a racist mindset to your patients, as you've done on this forum, I see why you aren't reaching them.
2) Once again, do your research. You won't find it in the Advocate or some white gay media, but you may have to reach out to sites like the NAACP and other black and/or black queer sites for resources.
3) Kill that homophobia is special or exclusive or worse in the black community noise. Because again, if you're going into work with that mindset and vibe, black folks are going to pick up on it.
Re: Why Joeydiablo needs to have a seatjoeydiabloFebruary 19 2013, 03:53:25 UTC
OK first off saying homophobia exists or is more prevalent in the black community =/= saying it does not exist in other communities. Hello republican party.
Come on I'm Latino. You think my coming out was an episode of Modern Family? Would you agree that coming out is tougher in the black community? Easier?
Here's why I think it the new diagnoses are skewed. Not only homophobia and stigma around HIV. Which is a big factor. Because if you are afraid to talk about it or deny it you can't protect yourself. I absolutely see this all the time.
I also think because of sociological poverty and lack of access to care. I also think lack of education, see above re: sociological poverty.
It's much better to say homophobia exists in X Y Z community what can we do about it? As opposed to saying it does not?
You need an open dialogue to learn. You write about this all the time. Race is real. Racism is real. LGBT is real, homophobia is real.
So my approach would be to meet people at face value. Have you told your parents? Ok what do you think would happen? OK here's some education, here's an arsenal. Do what you want when you're ready. If you can say hey I'm HIV positive but I have it managed. I'm healthy. I'm in care. I'm here to help when you're ready. If you're not ready that's fine. I am more of a tool to help than an authority figure, but I am seen as one and there is distrust at first. I feel that. I get that. It ends after a while. There is a lot of love in my job and a lot of hugs. This discussion is not my job. It's about my job, but it's not my job.
Atlanta NEEDS a young black gay HIV doc so BADLY. You have no idea.
I listen and hear their stories. I see your point as well.
Re: Why Joeydiablo needs to have a seatneo_prodigyFebruary 19 2013, 04:04:52 UTC
"OK first off saying homophobia exists or is more prevalent in the black community =/= saying it does not exist in other communities. Hello republican party."
First of all this wasn't what the post was about. So you derailing it and using as a jumpoff to say stupid shit about black people is where you fucked up. The trolling was premeditated as you prefaced with you were about to make some fucked up comments.
And you saying that homophobia is more prevalent in the black community is wrong to begin with. It's inaccurate. Which is why you shouldn't have been talking in the first place.
"Come on I'm Latino. You think my coming out was an episode of Modern Family?"
All the more reason why you should've shut the fuck up. As a person of color, you of all people should appreciate not having your race and your culture denigrated.
"Would you agree that coming out is tougher in the black community? Easier?"
Actually easier. I don't catch half as much bullshit from the black community as I do from the white community or the LGBTQ "community."
"You need an open dialogue to learn. You write about this all the time. Race is real. Racism is real. LGBT is real, homophobia is real. "
Uh huh. Well and good. But what the fuck can you tell me about blacks and black culture that I haven't already learned/lived through. Seriously.
The bottom line, this was not your chance to air your grievances about Negroes, we're discussing fandom and what took place at a convention. Keep it on topic.
Re: Why Joeydiablo needs to have a seatjoeydiabloFebruary 19 2013, 04:26:17 UTC
I think your original response was emotional and that's ok.
My original post was:
I am surprised that they are more accepting of gays at a black con because I see homophobia in the black community. You are correct. My perspective is limited.
Followed by: I see a lot of homophobia where I work with my black patients. This is what I see. I work with black people all day every day, this is a fact and it is an awesome fact. The diversity of my work place, and Atlanta in particular is one of the best things about it.
The men I work with are young and black and have homophobic homes. My perspective. Limited again. I could rephrase "many of".
Gay culture is caucasian centric and often objectifying of black men. More on gay culture than the black community.
Interesting that black geeks are more accepting than white geeks. In this statement I am stating that white geeks can be homophobic. Again from my limited experience. Also that it is interesting. Not NO WAY ZOMG REALLY?
I then went into the sexism and objectification of women prevalent at cons.
You then said what I was saying was racist. If you feel that way that is fine.
I feel that I was discussing race and homophobia. That is an emotional and hot button topic.
You replied with cusswords, you told me to have a seat. I realize it is an emotional issue and that my perspective is skewed, but I think what you missed is where I said I was glad.
Naturally a supportive comment turned to a controversial comment. So I'll have my seat now, but dialogue is both ways and I hope we both grow from it.
Re: Why Joeydiablo needs to have a seatjoeydiabloFebruary 19 2013, 04:41:57 UTC
Oh the Jamaica and Uganda thing was totally uncalled for I was using it to illustrate black homophobia, and it was a 'low blow' so my bad on that one. Absolutely irrelevant and unneccessary. I see it now. My apologies. OK I'm officially officially done.
Re: Why Joeydiablo needs to have a seatneo_prodigyFebruary 19 2013, 12:27:39 UTC
Joey first of all you came over here stating some hateful and erroneous things about blacks and trying to qualify it as fact. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate someone making racist and inaccurate comments about Latinos.
Do you have any idea how many times I hear this shit from non blacks. All lining up to tell me how they are more homophobic or super homophobic. No one ever once stops to ask the GAY BLACK GUY his thoughts or to even check to see if that shit is true. They just qualify it as fact and then tell THE GAY BLACK GUY why he doesn't know what he's talking about.
So no, when you make hateful and hurtful comments especially when you should know better, don't expect people to respond with warmth and glee,
So no, when you derail a discussion and state inaccurate and racist things about a marginalized group, particuarly black, I will not be polite about it. This will not be discussion time or teaching moments. Or rather it will, just not in the way you hope.
So this has nothing to do with emotion. You crossed a line and you got checked for it.
"You are correct. My perspective is limited."
And thank you for admitting this. I appreciate that. I just wish you had realized this before this post got derailed.
Re: Why Joeydiablo needs to have a seatjoeydiabloFebruary 19 2013, 14:33:59 UTC
I work every single day to save the lives of young gay black men. Men who many people have given up on. I battle drug companies for months to get them lifesaving medication. I take the calls from mama. I hold them and let them know they have a chance. So I do learn a little bit along the way about homophobia in the black community and its tragic effects. Maybe not enough to satisfy a sci fi social justice blogger, but a little bit. I won't be discounted.
I get it you're tired of the meme that blacks are more homoophobic than whites. I think Latinos are also more homophobic than whites. In your eyes I'm only allowed to talk about the Latino community?
What I do is not charity, and no one is lowly. I also would never say "I don't see color" or some such BS. I did not say I deserve a medal. My reward is a good nights sleep that I did the right thing.
I say I'm learning from experience. Clearly my experience is not good enough for you. That's fine. It won't stop me from doing what's right and learning.
I sense stigma really coming from you about the problem of HIV in the black community and I also unfortunately sense denial.
My saying that homophobia and HIV is a problem in the black community rubs you the wrong way and I get that. But we are allowed to discuss race and we are allowed to say what we've learned and learn from each other.
I've educated you and told you why your comments were racist and why you are being a racist hateful jackass. No more trolling.
No more replies. No more backtalk. Any future replies will be deleted unread. You've trolled and derailed this post enough and insulted me and my black readers long enough.
Re: Why Joeydiablo needs to have a seatjoeydiabloFebruary 19 2013, 03:56:57 UTC
All Diagnosed cases in a medical setting get reported. Yes people hook up all the time and it is not reported.
That's why I feel it is probably underreported in the black community due to lack of access to medical care, poverty, sociological factors. It is an unfortunate fact.
Unfortunately I do see a lot of homophobia in the black community. Not because Dan Savage something or other, but because I work in HIV primary care, and I see it with my own eyes.
So many of my patients harbor such internalized homophobia, they still won't admit they are gay. Not to mention the stigma that goes with HIV. There is no open discussion around HIV, and no open discussion about safe sex choices and options for gay men. If you could hear some of the teaching I do.
Unfortunately the majority of our new diagnoses are young black men. Men who are trying to find their place in a homophobic home environment and trying to find their place in a caucasian-centric gay culture that is often uninclusive or at best objectifying. Don't even get me started on why I would NEVER travel to Jamaica or Uganda.
So, sounds like a great con! Glad you had a good time.
Interesting that black geeks are more accepting of gays vs. white geeks in the south who I find often homophobic. I think it's the whole appeal of so much sci fi and comics to the teenage "boobies" and objectification of women mentality that brings that sort person to the con scene. That's why I lurve me some outlantacons.
Reply
No one is disputing that homophobia exists in the black community. But by no means does it even compare to the rampant unchecked homophobia that pervades white culture.
Just because your job puts you in touch with a small portion of black people, you still know nothing of our people and our culture. And quite frankly you aren't qualified to say anything. Because the fact of the matter is, I know plenty of white gays who wouldn't even step into an HIV primary care facility. So maybe your purview is fucked up yet again.
Especially if I haven't heard a peep after the countless examples of white homophobia that's keeping LGBTQs from actually gaining equal rights.
So spare me your racist bullshit, because that shit isn't even getting co-signed.
Reply
How would your recommend I relate?
Reply
In regards to relating, I would advise you to do your research and read the words of actual black queers and our dealings with the misinformation that gets spread about black culture and gayness.
Because I can tell you right now, most of the shit that you and others hear, is wrong.
Reply
It is actually quite difficult to find out HIV positive black men in media. Besides Magic Johnson When he came out as HIV positive what was the first thing people thought that "he's gay"?
Someone recommended we do an article on young black HIV positive men and we said absolutely not. We don't live in that world. It would be foolish.
I am asking your opinion on how to relate. From your perspective.
Reply
And yet you still managed to take the time to scribble some ignorant and racist shit on my fucking Livejournal page.
"All cases get reported to the CDC "
Now you and I both know damn well that folks hook up all the time spread HIV and other STDs and that shit doesn't get reported because for many of them they may not even know they're infected.
You asking for my opinion from my perspective.
1) If you come off half as condescending and arrogant with such a racist mindset to your patients, as you've done on this forum, I see why you aren't reaching them.
2) Once again, do your research. You won't find it in the Advocate or some white gay media, but you may have to reach out to sites like the NAACP and other black and/or black queer sites for resources.
3) Kill that homophobia is special or exclusive or worse in the black community noise. Because again, if you're going into work with that mindset and vibe, black folks are going to pick up on it.
Reply
Come on I'm Latino. You think my coming out was an episode of Modern Family? Would you agree that coming out is tougher in the black community? Easier?
Here's why I think it the new diagnoses are skewed. Not only homophobia and stigma around HIV. Which is a big factor. Because if you are afraid to talk about it or deny it you can't protect yourself. I absolutely see this all the time.
I also think because of sociological poverty and lack of access to care. I also think lack of education, see above re: sociological poverty.
It's much better to say homophobia exists in X Y Z community what can we do about it? As opposed to saying it does not?
You need an open dialogue to learn. You write about this all the time. Race is real. Racism is real. LGBT is real, homophobia is real.
So my approach would be to meet people at face value. Have you told your parents? Ok what do you think would happen? OK here's some education, here's an arsenal. Do what you want when you're ready. If you can say hey I'm HIV positive but I have it managed. I'm healthy. I'm in care. I'm here to help when you're ready. If you're not ready that's fine. I am more of a tool to help than an authority figure, but I am seen as one and there is distrust at first. I feel that. I get that. It ends after a while. There is a lot of love in my job and a lot of hugs. This discussion is not my job. It's about my job, but it's not my job.
Atlanta NEEDS a young black gay HIV doc so BADLY. You have no idea.
I listen and hear their stories. I see your point as well.
Reply
First of all this wasn't what the post was about. So you derailing it and using as a jumpoff to say stupid shit about black people is where you fucked up. The trolling was premeditated as you prefaced with you were about to make some fucked up comments.
And you saying that homophobia is more prevalent in the black community is wrong to begin with. It's inaccurate. Which is why you shouldn't have been talking in the first place.
"Come on I'm Latino. You think my coming out was an episode of Modern Family?"
All the more reason why you should've shut the fuck up. As a person of color, you of all people should appreciate not having your race and your culture denigrated.
"Would you agree that coming out is tougher in the black community? Easier?"
Actually easier. I don't catch half as much bullshit from the black community as I do from the white community or the LGBTQ "community."
"You need an open dialogue to learn. You write about this all the time. Race is real. Racism is real. LGBT is real, homophobia is real. "
Uh huh. Well and good. But what the fuck can you tell me about blacks and black culture that I haven't already learned/lived through. Seriously.
The bottom line, this was not your chance to air your grievances about Negroes, we're discussing fandom and what took place at a convention. Keep it on topic.
Reply
My original post was:
I am surprised that they are more accepting of gays at a black con because I see homophobia in the black community. You are correct. My perspective is limited.
Followed by: I see a lot of homophobia where I work with my black patients. This is what I see. I work with black people all day every day, this is a fact and it is an awesome fact. The diversity of my work place, and Atlanta in particular is one of the best things about it.
The men I work with are young and black and have homophobic homes. My perspective. Limited again. I could rephrase "many of".
Gay culture is caucasian centric and often objectifying of black men. More on gay culture than the black community.
Interesting that black geeks are more accepting than white geeks. In this statement I am stating that white geeks can be homophobic. Again from my limited experience. Also that it is interesting. Not NO WAY ZOMG REALLY?
I then went into the sexism and objectification of women prevalent at cons.
You then said what I was saying was racist. If you feel that way that is fine.
I feel that I was discussing race and homophobia. That is an emotional and hot button topic.
You replied with cusswords, you told me to have a seat. I realize it is an emotional issue and that my perspective is skewed, but I think what you missed is where I said I was glad.
Naturally a supportive comment turned to a controversial comment. So I'll have my seat now, but dialogue is both ways and I hope we both grow from it.
Reply
Reply
Do you have any idea how many times I hear this shit from non blacks. All lining up to tell me how they are more homophobic or super homophobic. No one ever once stops to ask the GAY BLACK GUY his thoughts or to even check to see if that shit is true. They just qualify it as fact and then tell THE GAY BLACK GUY why he doesn't know what he's talking about.
So no, when you make hateful and hurtful comments especially when you should know better, don't expect people to respond with warmth and glee,
So no, when you derail a discussion and state inaccurate and racist things about a marginalized group, particuarly black, I will not be polite about it. This will not be discussion time or teaching moments. Or rather it will, just not in the way you hope.
So this has nothing to do with emotion. You crossed a line and you got checked for it.
"You are correct. My perspective is limited."
And thank you for admitting this. I appreciate that. I just wish you had realized this before this post got derailed.
Reply
Reply
You sound like Miss Millie from the Colored Purple.
You proved your racism and hypocrisy with that crack about Uganda. Because I noticed you have nothing to say about Russia.
Newsflash, you have done nothing that myself and other blacks haven't been doing for each other for ages.
Volunteering, mentoring blacks, done that.
As well as other POCs, Latinos and Asians and I STILL have no right to go talking down to them about their culture or their race.
When you have something accurate to say,
talk to me then. Till then, stop derailing this thread.
Reply
http://www.inthemeantimemen.org/
Also the black and Latino vote on prop 8 is statistical in nature.
http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/issues/egan_sherrill_prop8_1_6_09.pdf
I get it you're tired of the meme that blacks are more homoophobic than whites. I think Latinos are also more homophobic than whites. In your eyes I'm only allowed to talk about the Latino community?
http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/issues/egan_sherrill_prop8_1_6_09.pdf
What I do is not charity, and no one is lowly. I also would never say "I don't see color" or some such BS. I did not say I deserve a medal. My reward is a good nights sleep that I did the right thing.
I say I'm learning from experience. Clearly my experience is not good enough for you. That's fine. It won't stop me from doing what's right and learning.
I sense stigma really coming from you about the problem of HIV in the black community and I also unfortunately sense denial.
My saying that homophobia and HIV is a problem in the black community rubs you the wrong way and I get that. But we are allowed to discuss race and we are allowed to say what we've learned and learn from each other.
Reply
No more replies. No more backtalk. Any future replies will be deleted unread. You've trolled and derailed this post enough and insulted me and my black readers long enough.
Reply
That's why I feel it is probably underreported in the black community due to lack of access to medical care, poverty, sociological factors. It is an unfortunate fact.
If this upset you it should. It upsets me.
Reply
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