Fic: Disconnect
Title: Disconnect
Word Count: 444
Rated: PG
Setting: DWTB
Characters: Aeryn Sun, Chiana
Summary: Under the seams runs the pain. - Anne Carson
( Disconnect )
Word Count: 444
Rated: PG
Setting: DWTB
Characters: Aeryn Sun, Chiana
Summary: Under the seams runs the pain. - Anne Carson
( Disconnect )
If TJohn has survived and he and Aeryn had returned to Moya to find MJohn and Chiana sleeping together, I don't think Aeryn would have felt any jealousy. I think she would have taken this as confirmation that TJohn was the "real" John. I don't think she was ever certain of this during season 3, and even if she had begun to think that way, I think that when she saw MJohn and TJohn's recording playing rock, paper, scissors...plus the fact that MJohn still wanted to be with her, as "her" John did...any thoughts of a "real" John and a "fake" John unraveled. She still had to leave so she could try to wall off her heart again, which was impossible with John standing in front of her. If MJohn and Chiana had gotten together, it's possible Aeryn would not have had to leave Moya at all.
I prefer to think that when Aeryn started the relationship with TJohn, she did it because she was ready then and there, and TJohn just happened to be the John that was available. I think that at that point, she blocked MJohn from her conscious thoughts because she wouldn't be able to sleep with TJohn knowing that there was still a John Crichton out there who was missing her. (A defense mechanism, if you will.) I like to think she would have felt guilty if she'd thought about MJohn too much, so she just didn't. I also like to think that TJohn would not have been able to go back to Earth without MJohn (if he's really John Crichton...then John Crichton would not be that thoughtless). Their part of season 3 was a whirlwind of crises, and I think that if TJohn had lived long enough for things to calm down, the topic of MJohn would have come up again for both of them, and they would have realized that they couldn't just abandon him in the UT's.
If I ever really believed that Aeryn could have gone to Earth with TJohn and never thought about MJohn again, I would lose all affection for Aeryn to the point that I couldn't be a J/A shipper anymore. Thankfully, I have yet to find conclusive evidence of this, so my OTP is safe :P
...yeah, your fic gave me lots of thinking to do ;)
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As for John Crichton wouldn’t be that thoughtless… he would, if he continued to think the other was a copy and hadn’t any claim to his life. If he didn’t want to share Aeryn, and had no problem with it, why would he want to share Earth? ;)
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I think you're sticking on "the real John wouldn't sleep with Chi" but I don't think that's what Zardi meant :)
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Not so much "He's a copy because he slept with Chi," but more like "He's not the same John I had on Talyn, not my John, because he is happy with Chiana now, so returning is less confusing for me than it might have been."
IMPORTANT QUALIFIER: I'm viewing this potential John/Chi thing as more of rebound relationship for both, rather than just sex, (possibly NOT what Aeryn in the fic intended) and I think it makes a big difference what type of "thing" John and Chiana had going. If they had been simply "friends with benefits," but John had gone back to pining for Aeryn after her return, then I don't think that would have changed much. Aeryn would still have looked at him, seen the John Crichton she loved, and would have had to run away to deal with her confusion and pain.
"I think the wreck of DWTB had to do with Aeryn opening up to one John and loosing him, and having another, “stranger” John to whom she didn’t open up and about whom she tried not to think about all that time."
Eh...I disagree that either John was a "stranger" anymore by season 3. They'd already declared their love for each other and shared quite a bit over the years before John was twinned. The extra step that Aeryn took with TJohn was the risk of starting an official relationship despite her fear that it would put someone in danger. When her fear proved true (sort of, anyway), she decided to wall her heart off again like a good Peacekeeper (end of The Choice). I think her pain upon returning to Moya centered on seeing the John Crichton she loved again and finding that it was too hard to distance herself while he was right in front of her (in addition to the confusion of having another version of her dead lover still alive).
I do agree that Aeryn tried not to think about MJohn while on Talyn, though I see it as a defense mechanism to deal with the fact that there were two of the man she loved, and one was separated from her, rather than because one had become somewhat of a stranger.
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Putting it like this works better for me then “confirmation of TJohn being the “real” John”. I can also see Aeryn seeing Mjohn getting together with Chi as something that would make her getting together with TJohn a less problematic situation. There would be “her” John and “Chi John”, but not “fake” John.
Eh...I disagree that either John was a "stranger" anymore by season 3. They'd already declared their love for each other and shared quite a bit over the years before John was twinned.
When I say “stranger”, I refer to what happened on Talyn. As MJohn well put it, “I missed that dance”. Mjohn didn’t take that step with her, he didn’t have that experience. In that particular aspect he was a stranger.
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Yes, that's much more like what I was trying to say. Thank you for getting into my head for me ^_^
"When I say “stranger”, I refer to what happened on Talyn. As MJohn well put it, “I missed that dance”"
Ah, ok. I can agree with that. MJohn and Aeryn did have to start over somewhat in that respect.
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TJohn didn't express any qualms about being with Aeryn and abandoning MJohn because there wasn't time for them to dwell on it. They were horrendously busy from the time they left Moya to the time TJohn died. John is a logical guy, a scientist, and given the chance to really think about him and his twin, I think both Johns would have realized, at least intellectually, that they were both equal and original. Neither would have been able to abandon the other in the UT's. Their reunion would have been inevitable if TJohn had survived, because Moya and Talyn had every intention of reuniting, and I don't think Aeryn and John would have dreamed of keeping them apart. The Johns being together would have forced them to consider their "realness."
I don't think they would be able to share Aeryn, and probably both Johns being together would have destroyed J/A for good. But sharing Earth? Sure...Earth is a big place. I think even sharing John's family would have eventually been feasible, assuming the US government didn't immediately lock them both up in the loony bin.
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I disagree about them having no time to think about it. They had a quiet moments too, and it all was happening over a hefty period of time.
Both Johns knew that there was absolutely no way they could share Aeryn, and I believe this was the major reason why they were so determined to label the other as a copy. They had to think like that, because otherwise J/A would indeed be over for both of them. So when the J/A situation started to unravel on Talyn, I believe John did think of the other, but he went with it according to that reasoning. Getting together with Aeryn had solidified him seeing the other as a clone. It’s just difficult to picture him thinking of MJohn as a clone when it comes to Aeryn, and not thinking of him as a clone when it comes to Earth, he would have to be consistent. Would he be so cruel as to not let his clone visit Earth? I don’t think so, probably not.
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Does it? I guess I have the impression that it happened quickly (like, over a couple of weeks) because I saw all those episodes in one afternoon :D
Would he be so cruel as to not let his clone visit Earth? I don’t think so, probably not.
Yeah...in the end, I have to force myself to believe some good things about TJohn (like "he would never abandon MJohn in the UT's!"), otherwise not only would I dislike him, I wouldn't be able to tolerate his existence. And since he's such a big part of season 3, I can't let that happen :P
Plus, as you say, it would be cruel to prevent either John from visiting Earth, and John Crichton...despite his many faults...is not cruel. I could accept that TJohn would consider MJohn a clone with regards to Earth as well as to Aeryn, but I do think he would have brought him along on a visit anyway.
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I'm fairly sure the fault was mine - I was posting yesterday on little sleep, in between Wii Fit sessions LOL
Thank you for clarifying...and I agree completely. This is very true:
I think that at that point, she blocked MJohn from her conscious thoughts because she wouldn't be able to sleep with TJohn knowing that there was still a John Crichton out there who was missing her. (A defense mechanism, if you will.) I like to think she would have felt guilty if she'd thought about MJohn too much, so she just didn't.
And I like to think that if Aeryn and TJ had gone to earth, it would have been for a visit - and then they would have gone to find MJ and give him the same opportunity.
If I ever really believed that Aeryn could have gone to Earth with TJohn and never thought about MJohn again, I would lose all affection for Aeryn to the point that I couldn't be a J/A shipper anymore. Thankfully, I have yet to find conclusive evidence of this, so my OTP is safe :P
I'm glad to hear it =D
I also would have a very difficult time accepting Aeryn (or John, even if I told myself MJ would have done the same thing). But I probably would have learned to live with it...if I could learn to understand and accept some of the dren D'Argo pulled, I could forgive Aeryn anything, eventually ;-)
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Personally, I am impressed with how quickly John forgave D'Argo in Revenging Angel. I know that, to a certain extent, D'Argo couldn't stop himself once he entered hyper-rage. But D'Argo's actions were still a huge breach of trust, and I don't think I could let something like that go as quickly as John did.
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- D'Argo knocking John out and sending him back to Grayza to "take one for the team". John "volunteered" but it was reluctant at best, he also said no, and he was still wrapping his own mind around the fact that Grayza raped him. As his BFF D'Argo should have been looking out for him and should have thought of a different way. But he apparently subscribes to the whole unfortunate "A man can't be raped! Especially by a woman!" mentality.
- The way he randomly kicks DRDs and rips out Moya's innards when things aren't going his way. Though we wouldn't have had Talyn if D'Argo hadn't thrown that particular temper tantrum, and that led to a lot of great stories LOL.
- When he hits Noranti in the face and knocks her out merely for annoying him. As Sikozu said at the time, was that really necessary? No, it really wasn't.
- When he tells Jool on Arnessk that friends stand up for each other, no matter what...and then he does nothing in APM when the villagers are literally stoning Chiana, even after he knows for a fact that it's Sikozu, not Chi, messing with Zerbat.
- When he basically laughs in Jothee's face when Jothee tries to take out Scorpy-John. How he disregards all of Jothee's pain and doesn't see the man he is but the child he was, and wants to live in La La Land.
- The scoffing "How could she say no?!" when John tells him Chi might say no to marriage. Chiana was unequivocally 100% wrong for sleeping with Jothee but she was also right in that D'Argo wouldn't have listened to her had she used her words. Jothee/Chi was about them using each other to make D'Argo see them for who they are, not who he wanted them to be, not extensions of him, not his possessions. Much of his early relationship with Chiana makes me cringe, not that she was perfect.
I love his relationship with Aeryn and I think it's so good because they're both warriors and he doesn't view her the way he does the other women he interacts with. I think he's a misogynist bully. BUT I love him. They all have flaws and are terrible people in many respects. D'Argo's just push more of my buttons (the guitar playing with Pilot at the end of DNA Mad Scientist that makes most people awwwww? Makes me throw up in my mouth a little, having been hit and then made to listen to an instrumental apology with a smile on my face).
What makes it okay is that Anthony Simcoe is fully aware of D'Argo's flaws and knew he was often playing him as a bit of a bastard, even if many fans don't tweak to his behavior that reads like the "Are You Being Abused" warning list they post in hospital restrooms. Both Anthony and Gigi knew from the start that Chi/D'Argo was not meant to be and wouldn't last. I'm open to a reunion (and like D a lot better) post MAA because I feel that that was really an eye opener for him...."I could never" became "I could and I did." I believe he acknowledges not just what he did to Lolaan, but the role he played in the trainwreck that was his relationship with Chi (his "I prefer the elegant grey" in BHTB is as close as he can come to a verbal apology for not seeing her). And he tries. All I ask is that people try, and I can't hate him after that. Aren't you glad you asked? ;)
Ironically I used to hate-hate-HATE D'Argo and began loving him when a big D'Argo fan reached MAA and couldn't handle the revelations. I found myself in the position of explaining his behavior and it really opened my eyes and heart to the character.
With regards to the bigger discussion: for what it's worth, what was in Aeryn's head as I was writing her was a "friends with benefits" relationship, not a love affair :) And her urging Chi to ask John to go with her had two motives, making things easier in Aeryn's mind for herself and MJ, by separating them, and help/protection for Chiana.
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D'Argo knocking John out and sending him back to Grayza to "take one for the team". John "volunteered" but it was reluctant at best, he also said no, and he was still wrapping his own mind around the fact that Grayza raped him.
One of the things I hate about season 4 is how no one in-universe seems to "get" what happened to John. I don't know if it's because they are alien and have a different view of rape...? Except that Chiana seemed quite shook up by her own rape, so at least one alien culture sees it as a horrendous act. Why does everyone see it as no big deal when it happens to John?
Much of his early relationship with Chiana makes me cringe, not that she was perfect.
Their whole relationship confuses me. I think they are so wrong for each other...not that their relationship doesn't have its cute moments, but I'm glad it ended and it should have stayed that way.
The way he randomly kicks DRDs and rips out Moya's innards when things aren't going his way.
I've noticed that Pilot and Moya rarely speak up when this happens (or, at least, not every time). Maybe Moya is big enough that she doesn't feel all of that, but Pilot is watching through the DRDs. I never understood why he didn't decide enough was enough and...I don't know what he would have done about it, exactly, but at the very least tell him it was unacceptable to abuse Moya and the DRDs that way.
(the guitar playing with Pilot at the end of DNA Mad Scientist that makes most people awwwww? Makes me throw up in my mouth a little, having been hit and then made to listen to an instrumental apology with a smile on my face).
Oh, I HATED that. What a pathetic attempt at an apology. I chalked it up to D'Argo being an alien warrior with bizarre ideas about forgiveness, but in actuality he didn't even follow his own morals with Pilot. In RA, D'Argo offered John a chance to take revenge on him...where was Pilot's chance?
With regards to the bigger discussion: for what it's worth, what was in Aeryn's head as I was writing her was a "friends with benefits" relationship, not a love affair :)
Thanks for the clarification :)
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Rebecca Riggs has said Grayza has no concept of rape and believed she was indeed offering Crichton a better option and giving him better treatment that Scorpius did, and I can believe that, the first time. But he tried to stab her, didn't he? I would think that would give her a moment's pause and contemplation, even if she saw no reason to change her methods.
It's possible PKs don't share our understanding of rape or process it in the same way, but as you point out, it's obvious Chiana does. Aeryn didn't know until WSS (and even then I don't know if she understands) but I find it odd that both D'Argo and Sikozu don't care...I do like the little things with Chiana, like how she's the only one that can initiate touch without him flinching for awhile, but I wanted more.
The show had too many balls in the air and didn't devote the proper time and attention to the storyline. I LOVE S4 but in some ways it is a mess. Not as tight as it could or should be and things fall by the wayside. Almost everything we get regarding the rapes comes from Gigi and Ben. The writing barely touches it. I don't know why and I used to be okay with it because it was still the most realistic treatment of the subject I'd seen on tv, but then I watched The Shield which has a male character raped and their writing is so flawless, unflinchingly honest and brave that Farscape's efforts now leave me disappointed. I think the most sophisticated storytelling we get from the writers is Coup By Clam, when they have scenes of John dressed as a woman being accosted by the creep juxtaposed with Chiana accosting the girl-pretending-to-be-a-boy tech on Moya in a sexually charged manner.
There are tiny moments for both of them in Lava, Chi's got small bits in TS and APM...then there's Kansas, which is beautiful...but it's not enough to do the characters and storylines justice.
I think they are so wrong for each other.
Agreed. Like I said, I'm okay with a reunion post MAA, but I don't think that would have lasted either. It may have ended more amicably than the first go around, but they are not J&A and they are not capable of living happily ever after, nor should they try to.
Anth has a hilarious statement in one of the official guides about D'Argo being a "planet slut" and he and Chi are alike that way...but when they get together D'Argo moves past that and decides he wants to settle down. But he never asks her if that's what she wants too, and is so wrapped up in his own dreams and desires he can't observe it for himself. JOHN knows she wouldn't be interested, but it doesn't enter D'Argo's head.
Allegedly there were a bunch of Chi/D'Argo scenes cut from Picture If You Will that would have given a much better foundation to and understanding of their relationship. I believe it was Chiana's first "real" relationship and she didn't know what the hell she was doing.
I don't know what he would have done about it, exactly, but at the very least tell him it was unacceptable to abuse Moya and the DRDs that way.
I wished he would shoot D'Argo out an airlock now and then...hey, he can survive 15 minutes and it would get his attention ;) I think there's an element of oh, that's just how D'Argo is, he can't control it (which is a lie, he may not be able to control it once he enters true hyper rage, but everything up to that point is a choice) and I think the others don't say anything because they don't want to get yelled at or threatened. Look at Jool's cowering meek little "Are you going to kill me?" in RA. And he pushes Chi in that episode too. I've seen people say she deserved the shove she got in SAL and the shaking in APM, but what's the excuse there? And now I'm rambling LOL
Oh, I HATED that.
Woo! I think you're the first fan who hasn't said "Oh, I thought that was sweet". I've known people to change their minds, but no one who didn't like it initially ;)
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