i completely disagreenbonokoskiAugust 12 2007, 20:41:00 UTC
allo allo
i am not interested in thriving politically. I am interested in doing effective organizing. There are enough people doing that in toronto that they don't need any help with getting enough people to build a base of support. Regina, and Saskatchewan on the other hand, does not have nearly enough people doing that work, and much of that has to do with the people who are from there go on to do good organizing work somewhere else. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Especially if you hate living in Saskatchewan, then get the fuck out and go make yourself happy.
I, however, do not hate living there. I figure it is more than worth a shot at organizing there, I think it is very important to have people in all areas doing good organizing. If Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver are all doing amazing that doesn't really mean fuck all for people who don't live in those places.
As far as the whole creative thing, which is obviously tied in with the political, there is obviously way more cultural (and political) stuff going on in major centres. I don't think that means a whole hell of a lot though. It isn't like you can't get access to that stuff if you don't live in those centres. And I think that the whole arts scene here, like the political movements here, are so overdetermined by personal shit that you don't even know what the fuck is going on.
That of course doesn't mean that doesn't happen everywhere. At least when it happens somewhere small you can kind of figure out why people are pissed off at each other and work to move past or get over that. It doesn't really have to happen in places that are so big that if you have some big blow out you just leave your organization, or union, or socialist project, and just go somewhere else to do your work, and leaving a big hole wherever in the space you used to work in. In smaller places there are less options, that can be really fucking terrible, but if you do it right it does mean that perhaps people can just take a breather and come back.
I don't pretend that regina, or saskatoon, is some sort of imminent anti racist feminist marxist juggernaut waiting to cadre the fuck out of the entire country. I do think that I do want to organize there, cause I feel a connection there, and it is a connection that I lack in Toronto.
I don't really buy the whole home is what you make it thing either. I mean it is only a home if you feel a connection to other people. that isn't something you can force on anyone. I don't feel it here, to the extent I need too, and I don't want to work towards it for a super long time when I have somewhere where it exists and it is meaningful and important to me.
As far as the help packing goes. that would be awesome and I would appreciate it.
Re: i completely disagreeshmeenAugust 12 2007, 21:25:58 UTC
weren't we supposed to have brunch this morning??
okay, you wrote a really long response and I think you read into too much of what I was saying. It was mostly anictodal(sp?) of Deanna, and probably not useful because you'll probably have a different situation. But I am not saying that Saskatoon is a shit hole or disagreeing with any of your comments of the work you wanna do and will do. But I don't see effective organizing happening here or Vancouver or Montreal either. Nor can I get that involved because not only did I just move here, but am super busy with school. I think that you and I are in similar spaces of that - and I'm just trying to be patient until I am done school. So I think I just scratched the surface here.
Just with Deanna who has no queer community, single people her age, no good work - I am encouraging her to leave. That situation isn't "thriving" for her.
Anyway, your tone just sounded defensive or something. And I didn't mean to come off as judgmental. Even if we don't see each other that much, i consider you a really close friend to me and I feel somewhat bad that you haven't felt you had the community you needed, cause i am part of that community. My experience of Toronto would be very different if you weren't here, so I am really sad at this reality that you are leaving.
Re: i completely disagreenbonokoskiAugust 12 2007, 21:44:20 UTC
Hey Sharmeen
Sorry that came off as defensive. I really didn't mean it to. And yah Deanna's situation is different from my from mine for sure. I definately don't know if Saskatchewan is a place I would move TOO, though I could see reasons for that.
I do have a lot of close friends in Toronto. They are all, like yourself, super busy. I recognize that. I don't hold it against people if I don't see them cause they have other stuff to do. I should have been a lot busier than I was when I was here thats for sure.
and I will miss you, and all my super busy friends. i definately dont' want to sound like I am moving cause I don't see people. it pretty much just comes down to I am moving cause I want to. when I left regina it was very much a "I need to get out of here right fucking now or I am going to lose it" situation. now i want to go back. so we will see what happens.
i am not interested in thriving politically. I am interested in doing effective organizing. There are enough people doing that in toronto that they don't need any help with getting enough people to build a base of support. Regina, and Saskatchewan on the other hand, does not have nearly enough people doing that work, and much of that has to do with the people who are from there go on to do good organizing work somewhere else. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Especially if you hate living in Saskatchewan, then get the fuck out and go make yourself happy.
I, however, do not hate living there. I figure it is more than worth a shot at organizing there, I think it is very important to have people in all areas doing good organizing. If Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver are all doing amazing that doesn't really mean fuck all for people who don't live in those places.
As far as the whole creative thing, which is obviously tied in with the political, there is obviously way more cultural (and political) stuff going on in major centres. I don't think that means a whole hell of a lot though. It isn't like you can't get access to that stuff if you don't live in those centres. And I think that the whole arts scene here, like the political movements here, are so overdetermined by personal shit that you don't even know what the fuck is going on.
That of course doesn't mean that doesn't happen everywhere. At least when it happens somewhere small you can kind of figure out why people are pissed off at each other and work to move past or get over that. It doesn't really have to happen in places that are so big that if you have some big blow out you just leave your organization, or union, or socialist project, and just go somewhere else to do your work, and leaving a big hole wherever in the space you used to work in. In smaller places there are less options, that can be really fucking terrible, but if you do it right it does mean that perhaps people can just take a breather and come back.
I don't pretend that regina, or saskatoon, is some sort of imminent anti racist feminist marxist juggernaut waiting to cadre the fuck out of the entire country. I do think that I do want to organize there, cause I feel a connection there, and it is a connection that I lack in Toronto.
I don't really buy the whole home is what you make it thing either. I mean it is only a home if you feel a connection to other people. that isn't something you can force on anyone. I don't feel it here, to the extent I need too, and I don't want to work towards it for a super long time when I have somewhere where it exists and it is meaningful and important to me.
As far as the help packing goes. that would be awesome and I would appreciate it.
Reply
okay, you wrote a really long response and I think you read into too much of what I was saying. It was mostly anictodal(sp?) of Deanna, and probably not useful because you'll probably have a different situation. But I am not saying that Saskatoon is a shit hole or disagreeing with any of your comments of the work you wanna do and will do. But I don't see effective organizing happening here or Vancouver or Montreal either. Nor can I get that involved because not only did I just move here, but am super busy with school. I think that you and I are in similar spaces of that - and I'm just trying to be patient until I am done school. So I think I just scratched the surface here.
Just with Deanna who has no queer community, single people her age, no good work - I am encouraging her to leave. That situation isn't "thriving" for her.
Anyway, your tone just sounded defensive or something. And I didn't mean to come off as judgmental. Even if we don't see each other that much, i consider you a really close friend to me and I feel somewhat bad that you haven't felt you had the community you needed, cause i am part of that community. My experience of Toronto would be very different if you weren't here, so I am really sad at this reality that you are leaving.
Reply
Sorry that came off as defensive. I really didn't mean it to. And yah Deanna's situation is different from my from mine for sure. I definately don't know if Saskatchewan is a place I would move TOO, though I could see reasons for that.
I do have a lot of close friends in Toronto. They are all, like yourself, super busy. I recognize that. I don't hold it against people if I don't see them cause they have other stuff to do. I should have been a lot busier than I was when I was here thats for sure.
and I will miss you, and all my super busy friends. i definately dont' want to sound like I am moving cause I don't see people. it pretty much just comes down to I am moving cause I want to. when I left regina it was very much a "I need to get out of here right fucking now or I am going to lose it" situation. now i want to go back. so we will see what happens.
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