all bush, all barbara-h8. all the time.quigonejinnSeptember 6 2006, 01:53:02 UTC
Factor that into the baby-snatching. Or not.
I mean. On the one hand, it makes the baby-snatching more plausible. From what I understand, baby-adopting in case of parental disaster was one of the godparents' standard duties, right? If Maria asks her to be the godmother, it's TOTALLY understandable, then, that the baby ends up with her at the end of FC and not with Mrs. Mason.
On the other hand, it also makes her naming the baby after her brothers eight times creepier, in a way. You're the godmother. Not the mother. Especially if the father shows up.
And yet, he does it to Bush despite Bush wanting to die on the deck of his fat-bottomed Dutch girl. It's just creepy.It's fascinating, too, in the sense that HH and Bush both seem to think that it's better to die at the height of combat than to linger on, wounded. We know that HH feels this way because he's terrified of being mutilated, but is that why Bush feels that way? Part of it has to be that he loves the glory and glamor of battle, I'm sure, but I wonder to how much of that
( ... )
Re: all bush, all barbara-h8. all the time.black_houndSeptember 6 2006, 03:20:11 UTC
but I wonder to how much of that is fueled by knowledge of what happens to peg-legged Navy lieutenants without connections?
That would seem to get born out on that trip down the Loire. Bush finally articulating his concerns about being a cripple and his future. And interestingly, it's at that point where HH FINALLY determines to do something to help Bush. The guilt finally overwhelms. What he hath wrought, and all that.
But yeah. Bush really doesn't fear death. And what better death than on the deck of his ship. And what better farewell than a naval funeral. Which is why Caudebec is so bitter. Not that he died. That's a mercy killing, omg. But in a fucking river, with no body. And man, we don't even have HH doing the Jack Aubrey thing, and having a shipboard service, even without a body to send over the side.
Re: all bush, all barbara-h8. all the time.idler_1814September 6 2006, 14:00:24 UTC
And man, we don't even have HH doing the Jack Aubrey thing, and having a shipboard service, even without a body to send over the side.
I always wondered about that, why HH didn't do it. And I think it comes down to this: after Bush fails to return, CSF tells us (to my best recollection, I don't have the book at hand) that HH 'couldn't imagine a world without Bush in it'.
With no body, no shipboard service, Hornblower could sometimes almost convince himself that Bush was still out there somewhere.
I think it's just part of the way CSF wrote him: Hornblower's actions (or inaction, this time) often spoke truer than his words.
Re: all bush, all barbara-h8. all the time.black_houndSeptember 7 2006, 02:52:40 UTC
Your brain has the shiniest things to say. :D
Yeah, the denial factor looms large there. No shipboard service, and no pyramid of skulls, etc. either. Man, if he had to stand up there and face the ship's company and actually say something, then he'd also have to acknowledge a whole bunch of things.
Makes me wonder what the ship's company might have been thinking that no words were said over the loss of their fellows, as it wasn't just Bush who got blown sky high.
playing the devil's advocate_oggy_September 6 2006, 02:29:31 UTC
just a totally neutral question in regards to the potential baby-snatching.
is mrs. mason a character in the first three novels?
because, as i've picked up in other locales of hornblower dialogue, the discussion about maria vis-a-vis Foresters "hornblower companion" was that she was tacked on just to give hornblower kid(s) and created the whole "uh, yur real pretty and all, but i'm married, lady" problem. hornblower's life chronology mrs mason exists, but does she book-publishing dates?
[oh, and totally, i wouldn't put it past barbara to use the baby for her own ends...and find out he's cute and cuddly as a bonus]
Re: playing the devil's advocate_oggy_September 10 2006, 20:43:42 UTC
i don't remember her being involved at all. which would make sense if she didn't exist that barbara could just swoop in and snag richard. as much as maria is a throw-away character, i think her mother is even more so (in forester's grand scheme of things).
i've totally lost place as to what book we're discussing
Comments 12
I mean. On the one hand, it makes the baby-snatching more plausible. From what I understand, baby-adopting in case of parental disaster was one of the godparents' standard duties, right? If Maria asks her to be the godmother, it's TOTALLY understandable, then, that the baby ends up with her at the end of FC and not with Mrs. Mason.
On the other hand, it also makes her naming the baby after her brothers eight times creepier, in a way. You're the godmother. Not the mother. Especially if the father shows up.
And yet, he does it to Bush despite Bush wanting to die on the deck of his fat-bottomed Dutch girl. It's just creepy.It's fascinating, too, in the sense that HH and Bush both seem to think that it's better to die at the height of combat than to linger on, wounded. We know that HH feels this way because he's terrified of being mutilated, but is that why Bush feels that way? Part of it has to be that he loves the glory and glamor of battle, I'm sure, but I wonder to how much of that ( ... )
Reply
That would seem to get born out on that trip down the Loire. Bush finally articulating his concerns about being a cripple and his future. And interestingly, it's at that point where HH FINALLY determines to do something to help Bush. The guilt finally overwhelms. What he hath wrought, and all that.
But yeah. Bush really doesn't fear death. And what better death than on the deck of his ship. And what better farewell than a naval funeral. Which is why Caudebec is so bitter. Not that he died. That's a mercy killing, omg. But in a fucking river, with no body. And man, we don't even have HH doing the Jack Aubrey thing, and having a shipboard service, even without a body to send over the side.
Reply
I always wondered about that, why HH didn't do it. And I think it comes down to this: after Bush fails to return, CSF tells us (to my best recollection, I don't have the book at hand) that HH 'couldn't imagine a world without Bush in it'.
With no body, no shipboard service, Hornblower could sometimes almost convince himself that Bush was still out there somewhere.
I think it's just part of the way CSF wrote him: Hornblower's actions (or inaction, this time) often spoke truer than his words.
Reply
Yeah, the denial factor looms large there. No shipboard service, and no pyramid of skulls, etc. either. Man, if he had to stand up there and face the ship's company and actually say something, then he'd also have to acknowledge a whole bunch of things.
Makes me wonder what the ship's company might have been thinking that no words were said over the loss of their fellows, as it wasn't just Bush who got blown sky high.
Reply
uh...maybe slightly inappropriate......
Reply
is mrs. mason a character in the first three novels?
because, as i've picked up in other locales of hornblower dialogue, the discussion about maria vis-a-vis Foresters "hornblower companion" was that she was tacked on just to give hornblower kid(s) and created the whole "uh, yur real pretty and all, but i'm married, lady" problem. hornblower's life chronology mrs mason exists, but does she book-publishing dates?
[oh, and totally, i wouldn't put it past barbara to use the baby for her own ends...and find out he's cute and cuddly as a bonus]
Reply
Reply
i've totally lost place as to what book we're discussing
Reply
Oops. I apologize for my part in getting us off course.
....just...couldn't...resist.... ;-)
Reply
Leave a comment