Random Thoughts About The Half-Blood Prince
The following quote makes very valid points regardless of the Slash angle:
Harry and his Half-Blood Prince
Dumbledore and Snape know what is at stake. Know what must be done. Are willing to pay the price. Have the capacity to not flinch back, the strength of will to act when the hour is darkest, when the need is greatest, when the stakes are highest.
Did you notice that throughout this book, again, as in every book, Snape pushes Harry, pushes him harder to learn, and protects him again and again? Hit him with one curse, stands there and brushes off Harry's curses, hits him only once, and stops the other Death Eaters from touching him?
And Snape is in such deep cover now - having convinced Bellatrix with the Unbreakable Vow (and do you really think that Dumbledore didn't know?), how could anyone deny the loyalty of the man who killed Dumbledore?
Snape has this year been appointed Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher, something he's wanted for a long, long time according to OotP. And the position's cursed - Dumbledore has known that for years. When Snape told Dumbledore about the Unbreakable Vow, they knew it was time to get all the cards on the table, to be ready to make the biggest play of all.
No, this is a deeper game that Snape and Dumbledore play, for the highest stakes of all.
And Harry can learn that. Learn it as he's forced to learn competence in the face of great danger. Learn that the world is full of shades of grey, and that things are not what they seem. Learn that love can be a weakness and a strength - that it brings fear and great courage.
He can learn to forgive Snape for having the courage to do what must be done.
Because he's going to have to do it himself. We've seen the start of it right here. Harry feeds Dumbledore more and more of the potion. He walks away from Ginny.
He's Dumbledore's man, and so is Snape. They can be together.
This ship has always been a complex one, a difficult one to sail, and never one for travelling in smooth waters.
Harry has always hated Snape - hated him with a passion, and now that passion burns brighter, higher.
The Snape/Harry corner of the fandom can rejoice. JKR has given us a wondrous gift
She's making Snape and Harry equals.
Harry must learn, must learn to fight, must learn to sacrifice everything, must stand when there's nothing else to stand with. Harry is learning the lessons of Snape and Dumbledore, and he can be a man with them, a man to be proud of, a man Severus can be proud to be with.
Not just the boy who lived but the man who's walked through the fire of grief and hatred and despair, and the man who can stand by Severus' side.
Our ship sails, and she's never been a ship for calm waters. Interesting times lie ahead, Harry.
Sail proudly with her.
Snape Toy
http://etc.slashcity.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=148
My Thoughts (forgive the odd repeat or two)
Part I
That is a comment I want to save for posterity. It amazed me reading the comments of people who have made it through the book - and again they fall in with the POV that is only Harry's. They see the surface and take it literally when they really need to think outside the box.
Harry has a lot to learn and the lessons are hard. The choice between what is right and what is easy - life isnt black and white. He still has a lot of growing up to do despite his considerable burdens. He will have to come to terms with the reality of Severus Snape the man - something his father and friends never did. Can he? No - I don’t think so.
But again - the thing that for me also adds credence to the redemptive Snape theory is the facts surrounding Alan Rickman's casting in the role.
Rickman loathes being associated with villains and keeps turning down roles of that nature. JKR spoke with him as she did all of the major players in the films - giving them insights that they are sworn to secrecy about - both Rickman and Robbie Coltrane who portrays Hagrid have spoken about this. For Alan Rickman to have committed to playing Snape - there has to be something serious going on - and that something will come into play in Book 7 no doubt.
As I have said previously: the fact that he agreed to portray Snape in the films has always suggested to me that Snape isnt going to be the cariacature bad-guy that he could be. There is much more to Snape than the one-dimensional baddie POV that Harry has.
Somehow there has to a redemptive process and has to be much more to Snape killing Dumbledore than meets the eye. I think Snape loathed to be in the situation where he had no choice but to maintain his cover - and I do believe that as with Harry, Dumbledore made him agree that he would do whatever necessary to maintain his cover - even if that included having to kill him. Snape did not know Draco’s task was - I think that was fairly obvious. And he had no choice but to agree to the Unbreakable Vow - and Dumbledore was surely aware of it. The look of revulsion and hatred on Snape’s face when he did the AK - that was for himself and this situation - not DD. And I do think that as with Harry - DD’s ‘pleading’ was for Snape to maintain his cover and do what had to be done.
In other forum someone pointed out that in that final fight between Harry and Snape - Snape is still trying to push the boundaries for Harry - he's still teaching Harry about what he needs to do to be able to stand up to Voldemort as an equal. Like others I too believe that this is what Snape has been trying to do for a long time now. Harry needs to see that he isn't going to be able to always defeat Death Eaters with simple, childish spells. When Harry was battling he used simple spells that would do nothing for him when faced with Voldemort.
This also reminds me of something said to me at work. I was doing some design work for someone who is notoriously difficult to work with. He told me that he had been having a conversation with a higher up in our head office about doing something I had been suggesting since I was hired. I said well good on you - they never listened to me...
His reply:
"Its not the message or the idea; its the person presenting it..."
There in a nutshell is the Harry/Snape conflict for me to a degree. Harry has to get beyond his one-dimensional stereotypical view of Snape the villain. The answers to all his dilemmas are right in front of him - but only because its Snape are these answers ignored. And this is still what gets Harry into trouble. You dont have to like someone, but you can respect them and what they are trying to do. It sounds like looking at the finer details Snape is really trying to prepare Harry for the ultimate confrontation. Harry just doesnt appreciate how hard the road is. He doesnt have all the answers and he needs Snape - even with all that I have read in the summaries and comments - he still needs his former Potions Master.
The problem with Harry is he is blinded, cant see and it will cost him and everyone around him - it already has as with Sirius...
The Chosen One still needs to grow up - his emotional intelligence is weak and that gives the Dark Lord an advantage - Snape is very right about that. But though Snape is also lacking in emotional intelligence, he still knows how to handle himself so that it isn’t a liability in the presence of Voldemort. Having said that - it definitely is a liability of sorts in dealing with Harry. Being called a coward - well Harry knew how to push Severus’ buttons didn’t he? But then Harry doesn’t want to see that Severus Snape is not a coward - he had to do the unthinkable in killing DD. In that final scene SS was definitely in anguish I think over what had transpired and the undeniably bad situation he now found himself in. He is so deep in cover - his life is seriously on the line - and to have Harry hit him with such unrelenting cruelty in a way in calling him a coward…
However, should JKR make him the bad-guy even to the end of Book 7, I will be highly disappointed as he is already enough of a chariacture baddy with how he looks and acts in some respects...doing that would just be too predictable for me...
I have been wondering, though, if Ms R has upped the stakes in her plotlines and gone against things originally planned - and if so is it because of the Fandom - and how many of us love to love Snape. After all - she has said that she doesnt understand why people like the bad guys in HP, like Snape and the Malfoys...
More than one reviewer of the book has noted how in Book 6 - Fiction is merging with cinema and the fandom - as Severus Snape in this book is definitely more like the Rickman portrayal and fan fics love of uber sarcasm.
She is playing hard and fast - and guaranteeing that the audience will be well and truly in place for Book 7.
But what I want to know is this:
Who is it that loved Snape? In an interview there was the following exchange
MA: Oh, here’s one [from our forums] that I’ve really got to ask you. Has Snape ever been loved by anyone?
JKR: Yes, he has, which in some ways makes him more culpable even than Voldemort, who never has.
Now - to me in the Spinners End chapter, Narcissa and Severus seemed to be on remarkable terms with each other. The way he was with her…until he saw that Bella was with her. Then his demeanour changed…
Now if Bella hadn’t been there…
Part II
Harry has a lot to learn and the lessons are hard. The choice between what is right and what is easy - life isnt black and white. He still has a lot of growing up to do despite his considerable burdens. He will have to come to terms with the reality of Severus Snape the man - something his father and friends never did.
But again - the thing that for me also adds credence to the redemptive Snape theory are the facts surrounding Alan Rickman's casting in the role.
Rickman loathes being associated with villains and keeps turning down roles of that nature. JKR spoke with him as she did all of the major players in the films - giving them insights that they are sworn to secrecy about - both Rickman and Robbie Coltrane who portrays Hagrid have spoken about this. For Alan Rickman to have committed to playing Snape - there has to be something serious going on - and that something will come into play in Book 7 no doubt.
The British Vogue Christmas 2004 photoshoot played on a theme of Pantomime - Alan Rickman agreed to do the shoot - but ONLY if he was not going to be cast as a villain. True to form.
Somehow there has to a redemptive process and has to be much more to Snape killing Dumbledore than meets the eye. I think Dumbledore had already instructed Snape to kill him when necessary, and that the tone of pleading in his voice was because he knew Snape was hesitating to do what was necessary at that moment.
Should JKR make him the literal bad-guy to the end of Book 7, I will be highly disappointed as he is already enough of a chariacture baddy with how he looks and acts in some respects...doing that would just be too predictable for me...
I have been wondering, though, if Ms R has upped the stakes in her plotlines and gone against things she originally planned - and if so is it because of the Fandom - and how many of us love to love Snape. After all - she has said that she doesnt understand why people like the bad guys in HP, like Snape and the Malfoys... I do think that Ms R definately follows fanon - esp with the ships in this book.
She is playing hard and fast - and guaranteeing that the audience will be well and truly in place for Book 7.
Part III
While its definitely true that AR isn’t necessarily committed to do all the films - for me there has to be a compelling reason why he agreed to take on the character of Snape in the first instance. After all - he was still turning down other roles that cast him as the villain and that has not changed. Tim Roth was only offered the role because Columbus and Heyman didn’t think AR would agree to it - but JKR won out and got her man in the end after having that talk with him...so it begs asking...what did she say that convinced him to do it...
Re Trust: I firmly believe that the whole DD trusting Snape situation goes far beyond Snape’s regret over revealing what he heard of the prophecy to Voldemort. After all, in the first book it was pointed out that many suspected Dark Wizards and Witches conveniently saw the side of the light or feigned being under the Imperius to stay out of Azkaban. JKR has also revealed that a skilled Wizard or Witch can easily get around Veritaserum.
Snape is a very powerful and intelligent Wizard in his own right. HPATHBP shows this without a doubt. Dumbledore knew exactly who he was dealing with and every contingency was planned for; every consequence considered.
I dont believe Snape is either wholly good or evil - he is almost dangerously complex. But I do believe that DD and Snape had a plan and were prepared for every contingency - including DD having to possibly die for the greater good. Snape is the only person in DD's circle that would be prepared to follow DD's orders and do the unthinkable - even when necessary.
As far as loving Lily - now that it it has been revealed that Snape is actually a Half-Blood (like Voldie and Harry) - its interesting that he called Lily a 'mudblood' in their 5th year...There is more to that than him just being sensitive that this girl came to his rescue against the Marauders. It has been said that Hitler vilified Jewish people even though he himself did have Jewish blood and his ideal was the so-called Aryan race - something that he himself was not. Now given the obvious parallels with HP and WWII - JKR is definitely working that angle with Voldemort and that could have been an angle with Snape in his youth…
Somehow JKR has to address that...
Re the whole Snape Manor thing in the fandom:
I never bought into Snape being wealthy. Even in my own fics he was usually working-class, poor and living in a not very nice part of town - I always thought he either came from the North England - where you see a lot of neighbourhoods like Spinner's End, or Wales (which also has a lot of neighbourhoods up North similar to England). The only concessions I have made on occasion is to put him in a cottage and only once in a nice house (his secret wife in that story wouldn’t never raise their children in a ramshackle terrace house in an abandoned neighbourhood *grins*). But the working class thing - I got that angle truthfully from the first film when I saw AR with fingerless gloves - which my English father-in-law told me at the time tended to be something one saw mainly with the working class back in the day...people thought I was off my rocker...but I have to say I am feeling pleased LOL!! AR had a lot of input into his portrayal (when does he not) so again - for me that was a tip-off; and AR himself is working-class, grew up on a Council estate and had make the most of his talents to move up in the world…
Harry and his Half-Blood Prince
Dumbledore and Snape know what is at stake. Know what must be done. Are willing to pay the price. Have the capacity to not flinch back, the strength of will to act when the hour is darkest, when the need is greatest, when the stakes are highest.
Did you notice that throughout this book, again, as in every book, Snape pushes Harry, pushes him harder to learn, and protects him again and again? Hit him with one curse, stands there and brushes off Harry's curses, hits him only once, and stops the other Death Eaters from touching him?
And Snape is in such deep cover now - having convinced Bellatrix with the Unbreakable Vow (and do you really think that Dumbledore didn't know?), how could anyone deny the loyalty of the man who killed Dumbledore?
Snape has this year been appointed Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher, something he's wanted for a long, long time according to OotP. And the position's cursed - Dumbledore has known that for years. When Snape told Dumbledore about the Unbreakable Vow, they knew it was time to get all the cards on the table, to be ready to make the biggest play of all.
No, this is a deeper game that Snape and Dumbledore play, for the highest stakes of all.
And Harry can learn that. Learn it as he's forced to learn competence in the face of great danger. Learn that the world is full of shades of grey, and that things are not what they seem. Learn that love can be a weakness and a strength - that it brings fear and great courage.
He can learn to forgive Snape for having the courage to do what must be done.
Because he's going to have to do it himself. We've seen the start of it right here. Harry feeds Dumbledore more and more of the potion. He walks away from Ginny.
He's Dumbledore's man, and so is Snape. They can be together.
This ship has always been a complex one, a difficult one to sail, and never one for travelling in smooth waters.
Harry has always hated Snape - hated him with a passion, and now that passion burns brighter, higher.
The Snape/Harry corner of the fandom can rejoice. JKR has given us a wondrous gift
She's making Snape and Harry equals.
Harry must learn, must learn to fight, must learn to sacrifice everything, must stand when there's nothing else to stand with. Harry is learning the lessons of Snape and Dumbledore, and he can be a man with them, a man to be proud of, a man Severus can be proud to be with.
Not just the boy who lived but the man who's walked through the fire of grief and hatred and despair, and the man who can stand by Severus' side.
Our ship sails, and she's never been a ship for calm waters. Interesting times lie ahead, Harry.
Sail proudly with her.
Snape Toy
http://etc.slashcity.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=148
My Thoughts (forgive the odd repeat or two)
Part I
That is a comment I want to save for posterity. It amazed me reading the comments of people who have made it through the book - and again they fall in with the POV that is only Harry's. They see the surface and take it literally when they really need to think outside the box.
Harry has a lot to learn and the lessons are hard. The choice between what is right and what is easy - life isnt black and white. He still has a lot of growing up to do despite his considerable burdens. He will have to come to terms with the reality of Severus Snape the man - something his father and friends never did. Can he? No - I don’t think so.
But again - the thing that for me also adds credence to the redemptive Snape theory is the facts surrounding Alan Rickman's casting in the role.
Rickman loathes being associated with villains and keeps turning down roles of that nature. JKR spoke with him as she did all of the major players in the films - giving them insights that they are sworn to secrecy about - both Rickman and Robbie Coltrane who portrays Hagrid have spoken about this. For Alan Rickman to have committed to playing Snape - there has to be something serious going on - and that something will come into play in Book 7 no doubt.
As I have said previously: the fact that he agreed to portray Snape in the films has always suggested to me that Snape isnt going to be the cariacature bad-guy that he could be. There is much more to Snape than the one-dimensional baddie POV that Harry has.
Somehow there has to a redemptive process and has to be much more to Snape killing Dumbledore than meets the eye. I think Snape loathed to be in the situation where he had no choice but to maintain his cover - and I do believe that as with Harry, Dumbledore made him agree that he would do whatever necessary to maintain his cover - even if that included having to kill him. Snape did not know Draco’s task was - I think that was fairly obvious. And he had no choice but to agree to the Unbreakable Vow - and Dumbledore was surely aware of it. The look of revulsion and hatred on Snape’s face when he did the AK - that was for himself and this situation - not DD. And I do think that as with Harry - DD’s ‘pleading’ was for Snape to maintain his cover and do what had to be done.
In other forum someone pointed out that in that final fight between Harry and Snape - Snape is still trying to push the boundaries for Harry - he's still teaching Harry about what he needs to do to be able to stand up to Voldemort as an equal. Like others I too believe that this is what Snape has been trying to do for a long time now. Harry needs to see that he isn't going to be able to always defeat Death Eaters with simple, childish spells. When Harry was battling he used simple spells that would do nothing for him when faced with Voldemort.
This also reminds me of something said to me at work. I was doing some design work for someone who is notoriously difficult to work with. He told me that he had been having a conversation with a higher up in our head office about doing something I had been suggesting since I was hired. I said well good on you - they never listened to me...
His reply:
"Its not the message or the idea; its the person presenting it..."
There in a nutshell is the Harry/Snape conflict for me to a degree. Harry has to get beyond his one-dimensional stereotypical view of Snape the villain. The answers to all his dilemmas are right in front of him - but only because its Snape are these answers ignored. And this is still what gets Harry into trouble. You dont have to like someone, but you can respect them and what they are trying to do. It sounds like looking at the finer details Snape is really trying to prepare Harry for the ultimate confrontation. Harry just doesnt appreciate how hard the road is. He doesnt have all the answers and he needs Snape - even with all that I have read in the summaries and comments - he still needs his former Potions Master.
The problem with Harry is he is blinded, cant see and it will cost him and everyone around him - it already has as with Sirius...
The Chosen One still needs to grow up - his emotional intelligence is weak and that gives the Dark Lord an advantage - Snape is very right about that. But though Snape is also lacking in emotional intelligence, he still knows how to handle himself so that it isn’t a liability in the presence of Voldemort. Having said that - it definitely is a liability of sorts in dealing with Harry. Being called a coward - well Harry knew how to push Severus’ buttons didn’t he? But then Harry doesn’t want to see that Severus Snape is not a coward - he had to do the unthinkable in killing DD. In that final scene SS was definitely in anguish I think over what had transpired and the undeniably bad situation he now found himself in. He is so deep in cover - his life is seriously on the line - and to have Harry hit him with such unrelenting cruelty in a way in calling him a coward…
However, should JKR make him the bad-guy even to the end of Book 7, I will be highly disappointed as he is already enough of a chariacture baddy with how he looks and acts in some respects...doing that would just be too predictable for me...
I have been wondering, though, if Ms R has upped the stakes in her plotlines and gone against things originally planned - and if so is it because of the Fandom - and how many of us love to love Snape. After all - she has said that she doesnt understand why people like the bad guys in HP, like Snape and the Malfoys...
More than one reviewer of the book has noted how in Book 6 - Fiction is merging with cinema and the fandom - as Severus Snape in this book is definitely more like the Rickman portrayal and fan fics love of uber sarcasm.
She is playing hard and fast - and guaranteeing that the audience will be well and truly in place for Book 7.
But what I want to know is this:
Who is it that loved Snape? In an interview there was the following exchange
MA: Oh, here’s one [from our forums] that I’ve really got to ask you. Has Snape ever been loved by anyone?
JKR: Yes, he has, which in some ways makes him more culpable even than Voldemort, who never has.
Now - to me in the Spinners End chapter, Narcissa and Severus seemed to be on remarkable terms with each other. The way he was with her…until he saw that Bella was with her. Then his demeanour changed…
Now if Bella hadn’t been there…
Part II
Harry has a lot to learn and the lessons are hard. The choice between what is right and what is easy - life isnt black and white. He still has a lot of growing up to do despite his considerable burdens. He will have to come to terms with the reality of Severus Snape the man - something his father and friends never did.
But again - the thing that for me also adds credence to the redemptive Snape theory are the facts surrounding Alan Rickman's casting in the role.
Rickman loathes being associated with villains and keeps turning down roles of that nature. JKR spoke with him as she did all of the major players in the films - giving them insights that they are sworn to secrecy about - both Rickman and Robbie Coltrane who portrays Hagrid have spoken about this. For Alan Rickman to have committed to playing Snape - there has to be something serious going on - and that something will come into play in Book 7 no doubt.
The British Vogue Christmas 2004 photoshoot played on a theme of Pantomime - Alan Rickman agreed to do the shoot - but ONLY if he was not going to be cast as a villain. True to form.
Somehow there has to a redemptive process and has to be much more to Snape killing Dumbledore than meets the eye. I think Dumbledore had already instructed Snape to kill him when necessary, and that the tone of pleading in his voice was because he knew Snape was hesitating to do what was necessary at that moment.
Should JKR make him the literal bad-guy to the end of Book 7, I will be highly disappointed as he is already enough of a chariacture baddy with how he looks and acts in some respects...doing that would just be too predictable for me...
I have been wondering, though, if Ms R has upped the stakes in her plotlines and gone against things she originally planned - and if so is it because of the Fandom - and how many of us love to love Snape. After all - she has said that she doesnt understand why people like the bad guys in HP, like Snape and the Malfoys... I do think that Ms R definately follows fanon - esp with the ships in this book.
She is playing hard and fast - and guaranteeing that the audience will be well and truly in place for Book 7.
Part III
While its definitely true that AR isn’t necessarily committed to do all the films - for me there has to be a compelling reason why he agreed to take on the character of Snape in the first instance. After all - he was still turning down other roles that cast him as the villain and that has not changed. Tim Roth was only offered the role because Columbus and Heyman didn’t think AR would agree to it - but JKR won out and got her man in the end after having that talk with him...so it begs asking...what did she say that convinced him to do it...
Re Trust: I firmly believe that the whole DD trusting Snape situation goes far beyond Snape’s regret over revealing what he heard of the prophecy to Voldemort. After all, in the first book it was pointed out that many suspected Dark Wizards and Witches conveniently saw the side of the light or feigned being under the Imperius to stay out of Azkaban. JKR has also revealed that a skilled Wizard or Witch can easily get around Veritaserum.
Snape is a very powerful and intelligent Wizard in his own right. HPATHBP shows this without a doubt. Dumbledore knew exactly who he was dealing with and every contingency was planned for; every consequence considered.
I dont believe Snape is either wholly good or evil - he is almost dangerously complex. But I do believe that DD and Snape had a plan and were prepared for every contingency - including DD having to possibly die for the greater good. Snape is the only person in DD's circle that would be prepared to follow DD's orders and do the unthinkable - even when necessary.
As far as loving Lily - now that it it has been revealed that Snape is actually a Half-Blood (like Voldie and Harry) - its interesting that he called Lily a 'mudblood' in their 5th year...There is more to that than him just being sensitive that this girl came to his rescue against the Marauders. It has been said that Hitler vilified Jewish people even though he himself did have Jewish blood and his ideal was the so-called Aryan race - something that he himself was not. Now given the obvious parallels with HP and WWII - JKR is definitely working that angle with Voldemort and that could have been an angle with Snape in his youth…
Somehow JKR has to address that...
Re the whole Snape Manor thing in the fandom:
I never bought into Snape being wealthy. Even in my own fics he was usually working-class, poor and living in a not very nice part of town - I always thought he either came from the North England - where you see a lot of neighbourhoods like Spinner's End, or Wales (which also has a lot of neighbourhoods up North similar to England). The only concessions I have made on occasion is to put him in a cottage and only once in a nice house (his secret wife in that story wouldn’t never raise their children in a ramshackle terrace house in an abandoned neighbourhood *grins*). But the working class thing - I got that angle truthfully from the first film when I saw AR with fingerless gloves - which my English father-in-law told me at the time tended to be something one saw mainly with the working class back in the day...people thought I was off my rocker...but I have to say I am feeling pleased LOL!! AR had a lot of input into his portrayal (when does he not) so again - for me that was a tip-off; and AR himself is working-class, grew up on a Council estate and had make the most of his talents to move up in the world…