Concerning Kakashi: I used to like him. When he was first introduced I thought that he was a) really cool, b) expecting his students to judge for themselves, c) giving his students a lot of responsibility without overchallenging them. Later, after chapter 177 or 178 (I am not certain which one, but I still remember that it was one of them), I started to think that he was not such a good teacher after all, but I still liked him. He was not evil, he was overchallenged with the task of caring for two boys without family and a girl. I even wrote a fanfiction with Kakashi as first-person narrator, I wrote another one where he is the first-person narrator of the epilogue, and he even turns up in my last fanfiction. He is not the perfect teacher in my stories, but he cares for his boys even though he is overchallenged and he is ready to learn from them
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I wholeheatredly agree about Kakashi. That chapter was a turning point for me. He was no longer the kindly reliable caring teacher that I thought he was. He showed his true colors as someone who was self absorbed and a hypocrite. Somene who sells himself as being rightous wouldnt want to keep the discovery of a masscre under wraps
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Somene who sells himself as being rightous wouldnt want to keep the discovery of a masscre under wraps.
In just about any other story the good guys would go on to investigate and try to remove the perpetrators from power instead Naruto and Kakashi cover it up, even from Sakura. Great teamwork guys.
I'd really like to know what Kishi thought he was doing with the revelations about the Uchiha massacre. Did he really think he was exonerating Itachi? ( Well several Itachi fans thought so) I mean there was stuff like Obito's eye collection that were forgotten or for that matter Obito's feelings towards his clan.
There could have been 8 or 9 chapters to tie up loose ends if Kishi hadn't included that fight between Naruto and Sasuke.
In just about any other story the good guys would go on to investigate and try to remove the perpetrators from power instead Naruto and Kakashi cover it up, even from Sakura. Great teamwork guys.
I don't read much fiction these days except Terry Pratchett, but his great heroes, Sam Vimes or Granny Weatherwax - well, mostly Sam Vimes, would probably not accept.
When I got into fierce discussions, the last (non-)argument was always: it's Japanese culture. You must respect Japanese culture, else you are racist. So I am glad that apparently condoning a massacre is unusual even in Japanese stories.
In my response to simsim_hb I wrote about my speculations how the manga turned bad. There must have been a point when Kishimoto or the people around him decided that having Danzou as Hokage and most imporant villain (until he would be replaced by the next most important villain) was not a good idea, so that they had him killed by Sasuke. Actually killing Danzou was the most stupid thing Sasuke ever did
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There's quite a few people who feel the massacre was a crime but the people who justify tend to be very loud and aggressive. (at least it feels that way) On the fanclub section of the Naruto Forums there's even an Anti Will of Fire fanclub that has gotten up to 42 pages. Its mostly inactive now with pairings taking up most of the attention. Your stance on the massacre was actually one of the things that drew me to this site
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There's quite a few people who feel the massacre was a crime but the people who justify tend to be very loud and aggressive. (at least it feels that way)
I feel that I have got into a lot of trouble with them at chuunin. I had discussions that went for a hundred comments and made me stay awake until 3 am several nights in a row. I guess I cannot judge whether they were more aggressive than I was.
On the fanclub section of the Naruto Forums there's even an Anti Will of Fire fanclub that has gotten up to 42 pages. Its mostly inactive now with pairings taking up most of the attention. Your stance on the massacre was actually one of the things that drew me to this site.I found that thread. It's interesting to me that it started before the revelations on the Uchiha massacre. I always thought it weird that leaving Konoha would turn Sasuke into a bad guy. Joining Orochimaru is another matter, however, it's quite common that people who leave a bad place first end up in a worse place - but this is okay if they manage to escape again. E.g.
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After chapter 698 I also thought: hopefully they'll die, even though I rationally knew that they would not. I felt ashamed of it, but it meant I realized how tired I had become of the manga
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In just about any other story the good guys would go on to investigate and try to remove the perpetrators from power instead Naruto and Kakashi cover it up, even from Sakura. Great teamwork guys.
I'd really like to know what Kishi thought he was doing with the revelations about the Uchiha massacre. Did he really think he was exonerating Itachi? ( Well several Itachi fans thought so) I mean there was stuff like Obito's eye collection that were forgotten or for that matter Obito's feelings towards his clan.
There could have been 8 or 9 chapters to tie up loose ends if Kishi hadn't included that fight between Naruto and Sasuke.
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I don't read much fiction these days except Terry Pratchett, but his great heroes, Sam Vimes or Granny Weatherwax - well, mostly Sam Vimes, would probably not accept.
When I got into fierce discussions, the last (non-)argument was always: it's Japanese culture. You must respect Japanese culture, else you are racist. So I am glad that apparently condoning a massacre is unusual even in Japanese stories.
In my response to simsim_hb I wrote about my speculations how the manga turned bad. There must have been a point when Kishimoto or the people around him decided that having Danzou as Hokage and most imporant villain (until he would be replaced by the next most important villain) was not a good idea, so that they had him killed by Sasuke. Actually killing Danzou was the most stupid thing Sasuke ever did ( ... )
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I feel that I have got into a lot of trouble with them at chuunin. I had discussions that went for a hundred comments and made me stay awake until 3 am several nights in a row. I guess I cannot judge whether they were more aggressive than I was.
On the fanclub section of the Naruto Forums there's even an Anti Will of Fire fanclub that has gotten up to 42 pages. Its mostly inactive now with pairings taking up most of the attention. Your stance on the massacre was actually one of the things that drew me to this site.I found that thread. It's interesting to me that it started before the revelations on the Uchiha massacre. I always thought it weird that leaving Konoha would turn Sasuke into a bad guy. Joining Orochimaru is another matter, however, it's quite common that people who leave a bad place first end up in a worse place - but this is okay if they manage to escape again. E.g. ( ... )
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