I think I might take a pass on reading this and future chapters; I'm grateful to this site for its recaps since they give me an idea of whether or not I want to continue checking out the manga.
Basically Sasuke is doomed to TnJ; he's too important not to become a feather in Naruto's cap. The character's dignity and agency will be sacrificed to the Chosen One after the obligatory fight. Sasuke's plan of reforming the world all by himself finally puts him on the same intellectual level as Naruto's hold hands and everything will be okay approach which actually has a chance of succeeding solely because he's the main character. I wonder if there's a fanfic out there where TnJ is an actual mind or emotion control jutsu.
I'm still just pissed off with the way Kishimoto has chosen to handle the Uchiha clan and massacre. He just seems too invested in Konoha's moral superiority; leaving the village and going against the status quo is a moral failing and usually leads to villainy. Was Obito's murder of the clan ever really addressed? And then there's Itachi. Itachi the good Uchiha who kills his clan for the village instead of telling the village and the clan about Obito/Madara and giving the a common enemy. Itachi the perfect, selfless, tragic hero or antihero who had no other choice and whose terrible suffering is so much more important than his victims.(including Sasuke who should just live and die for the village because thats whats Itachi would want)
Yeah, sorry for the venting. IMO they should have given Obito's part to Itachi. The death of a childhood crush as a villain's motive tends to inspire facepalms. On the other hand if the villain was manipulated into murdering his family for the "good of the village"...... that's a lot more believable but it seems when Kishi introduces gray he ends up backtracking so that Konoha will be the Good Place. Sympathetic villain who wants a dream world where his family is alive and happy and there is absolute peace, is a much more logical role for Itachi than the superprodigy spy who doesn't seem to have told them anything useful and had the perfect opportunity to take out Orochimaru. The only Uchiha we really see are villains and antagonists and then we have this apparently real Curse of Hatred going all the way back to Indra leaving instead of sticking around and going on about how wonderful Ashura was. Even Danzo was presented in a neutral light for someone who committed a genocide.
I think its safe to say that this chapter, from what I've seen in previews, hasn't made a good impression on me.
I agree with so much of what you are saying, especially about Danzou. I mean he got a flash back to explain his "pure and honest" motivations while Sasuke was purposely made out to be the villain in the end, despite the fact that Danzou had an arm full of Sharingans! Time and time again I am disappointed by the way Sasuke's character is portrayed; from the crazy faces to attempted murder. I hoped that Konoha and it's dirty politics, and those of the Ninja world in general would eventually be shown for what they are; a defective system that might have some selfless heroes, but is based on simply a power struggle between internal and external factions. I really wanted the 3rd Hokage to apologize but alas I think I am putting too many realistic expectations in a children's manga.
Anyhow. Suieko thank you for the review. I thought the chapter was pretty amusing in a 'doh" sort of way but I was chuckling at your review. Personally, am not surprised to hear Sasuke's plan. For someone whose entire life was torn apart because of Ninja politics, he is very unlikely to be fooled by all the sacharine nonsense of the past chapter. I can understand why he would think the system needs a rehaul, but I am not sure that killing the Kage's is the way to go. But then again, if he doesn't do something now while most of the world is incapacitated, the Ninja world will continue as it was before, and that's also why the beasts need to be captured, so that someone who is power hungry won't seek to capture them in the future. I don't think Sasuke is power hungry or has truly bad intentions, but he does take very drastic and extreme decisions.... I just don't want Naruto to talk him out of them. He should come to a better decision on his own just as he decided against destroying Konoha in the past.
I hoped that Konoha and it's dirty politics, and those of the Ninja world in general would eventually be shown for what they are; a defective system that might have some selfless heroes, but is based on simply a power struggle between internal and external factions.
I think we're supposed to be seeing Naruto as the solution. Kishi seems invested in Konoha in a way that other shounen writers aren't invested in their settings. For example in Bleach we have Soul Society where some people (Yoruichi, Urahara, the Vizards) have valid and justified reasons in addition to the bad apples like Aizen. Amestris in Full Metal Alchemist is still guilty of a genocide. Mustang and Hawkeye still had blood on their hands; atoning for those crimes and fighting against the regime responsible for them was their character arc; no secret Ishbalans emerged to handily massacre their people for the Amestrians. The closest you get to a Sasuke is Scar whose hatred for state alchemists is shown as a logical consequence of what he lost. In contrast you have Kishi presenting the massacre as a neccessary evil to the point where people on Naruto Forums honestly think that Danzo is a grey character even with that lovely arm of sharingan. I wish the second Hokage could have personally seen that.
The problem is human nature. Konoha was founded by Hashirama and Madara as a place where the Senju and Uchiha could live peacefully together with other clans; a few generations later one is murdered while the other seems to have mysteriously died out. A nation is won or lost in every generation.
Now I know the word to describe what I think of the manga: it's become scary. Danzou is grey, and Sasuke is completely crazy. What kind of moral judgement is that? But this is the way Kishimoto makes it appear.
Don't apologize for venting. Actually, when I consider returning to the chuunin-thread and explaining to some people there who think that Sasuke's defection from Konoha should be adressed that murder is a far worse crime than defection and that before adressing Sasuke's defection they need to address the murder of the Uchiha.
Actually I think that "pissed off" is far too weak to describe the way Kishimoto handles the Uchiha massacre. I think it's creepy, if you consider what it boils down to. Murdering the Uchiha (independendly of their personal guilt) is okay because the Uchiha are evil by nature. Konoha is good, because its Hokages are the heirs of the good son of the Rikudo. Being good equals protecting Konoha, and villains are redeemed when they redeemed that their true dream has always been to protect Konoha. (And there's far too many fans who think that such an idea is quite fine.)
There's still a small chance that Naruto will address the Uchiha massacre in a sympathetic way instead of fighting Sasuke, but I am rather pessimistic about it. Considering it's a children's story and that children as less certain about right and wrong, I'd wish that at some point Kishimoto would state clearly that the Uchiha murder was a crime, but I fear that won't happen. (And well, it's not only children but also too many adults who think that "if the state orders it" is one of the exceptions when killing a person is not murder.)
Sympathetic villain who wants a dream world where his family is alive and happy and there is absolute peace, is a much more logical role for Itachi than the superprodigy spy who doesn't seem to have told them anything useful and had the perfect opportunity to take out Orochimaru.
Well, yes, but then Itachi would have to regret that he murdered his family, and he would have to come to the conclusion that Konoha is not always in the right.
Basically Sasuke is doomed to TnJ; he's too important not to become a feather in Naruto's cap. The character's dignity and agency will be sacrificed to the Chosen One after the obligatory fight. Sasuke's plan of reforming the world all by himself finally puts him on the same intellectual level as Naruto's hold hands and everything will be okay approach which actually has a chance of succeeding solely because he's the main character. I wonder if there's a fanfic out there where TnJ is an actual mind or emotion control jutsu.
I'm still just pissed off with the way Kishimoto has chosen to handle the Uchiha clan and massacre. He just seems too invested in Konoha's moral superiority; leaving the village and going against the status quo is a moral failing and usually leads to villainy. Was Obito's murder of the clan ever really addressed? And then there's Itachi. Itachi the good Uchiha who kills his clan for the village instead of telling the village and the clan about Obito/Madara and giving the a common enemy. Itachi the perfect, selfless, tragic hero or antihero who had no other choice and whose terrible suffering is so much more important than his victims.(including Sasuke who should just live and die for the village because thats whats Itachi would want)
Yeah, sorry for the venting. IMO they should have given Obito's part to Itachi. The death of a childhood crush as a villain's motive tends to inspire facepalms. On the other hand if the villain was manipulated into murdering his family for the "good of the village"...... that's a lot more believable but it seems when Kishi introduces gray he ends up backtracking so that Konoha will be the Good Place. Sympathetic villain who wants a dream world where his family is alive and happy and there is absolute peace, is a much more logical role for Itachi than the superprodigy spy who doesn't seem to have told them anything useful and had the perfect opportunity to take out Orochimaru. The only Uchiha we really see are villains and antagonists and then we have this apparently real Curse of Hatred going all the way back to Indra leaving instead of sticking around and going on about how wonderful Ashura was. Even Danzo was presented in a neutral light for someone who committed a genocide.
I think its safe to say that this chapter, from what I've seen in previews, hasn't made a good impression on me.
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I really wanted the 3rd Hokage to apologize but alas I think I am putting too many realistic expectations in a children's manga.
Anyhow. Suieko thank you for the review. I thought the chapter was pretty amusing in a 'doh" sort of way but I was chuckling at your review. Personally, am not surprised to hear Sasuke's plan. For someone whose entire life was torn apart because of Ninja politics, he is very unlikely to be fooled by all the sacharine nonsense of the past chapter. I can understand why he would think the system needs a rehaul, but I am not sure that killing the Kage's is the way to go. But then again, if he doesn't do something now while most of the world is incapacitated, the Ninja world will continue as it was before, and that's also why the beasts need to be captured, so that someone who is power hungry won't seek to capture them in the future. I don't think Sasuke is power hungry or has truly bad intentions, but he does take very drastic and extreme decisions....
I just don't want Naruto to talk him out of them. He should come to a better decision on his own just as he decided against destroying Konoha in the past.
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I think we're supposed to be seeing Naruto as the solution. Kishi seems invested in Konoha in a way that other shounen writers aren't invested in their settings. For example in Bleach we have Soul Society where some people (Yoruichi, Urahara, the Vizards) have valid and justified reasons in addition to the bad apples like Aizen. Amestris in Full Metal Alchemist is still guilty of a genocide. Mustang and Hawkeye still had blood on their hands; atoning for those crimes and fighting against the regime responsible for them was their character arc; no secret Ishbalans emerged to handily massacre their people for the Amestrians. The closest you get to a Sasuke is Scar whose hatred for state alchemists is shown as a logical consequence of what he lost. In contrast you have Kishi presenting the massacre as a neccessary evil to the point where people on Naruto Forums honestly think that Danzo is a grey character even with that lovely arm of sharingan. I wish the second Hokage could have personally seen that.
The problem is human nature. Konoha was founded by Hashirama and Madara as a place where the Senju and Uchiha could live peacefully together with other clans; a few generations later one is murdered while the other seems to have mysteriously died out. A nation is won or lost in every generation.
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Actually I think that "pissed off" is far too weak to describe the way Kishimoto handles the Uchiha massacre. I think it's creepy, if you consider what it boils down to. Murdering the Uchiha (independendly of their personal guilt) is okay because the Uchiha are evil by nature. Konoha is good, because its Hokages are the heirs of the good son of the Rikudo. Being good equals protecting Konoha, and villains are redeemed when they redeemed that their true dream has always been to protect Konoha. (And there's far too many fans who think that such an idea is quite fine.)
There's still a small chance that Naruto will address the Uchiha massacre in a sympathetic way instead of fighting Sasuke, but I am rather pessimistic about it. Considering it's a children's story and that children as less certain about right and wrong, I'd wish that at some point Kishimoto would state clearly that the Uchiha murder was a crime, but I fear that won't happen. (And well, it's not only children but also too many adults who think that "if the state orders it" is one of the exceptions when killing a person is not murder.)
Sympathetic villain who wants a dream world where his family is alive and happy and there is absolute peace, is a much more logical role for Itachi than the superprodigy spy who doesn't seem to have told them anything useful and had the perfect opportunity to take out Orochimaru.
Well, yes, but then Itachi would have to regret that he murdered his family, and he would have to come to the conclusion that Konoha is not always in the right.
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