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mutter12 February 19 2008, 19:41:40 UTC
I had to read it a couple of time.......I still find it hard to believe that you can say that you had a choice....Stay or get shot, to go in the army and study or not but no study....It is more take it or leave it.
But I must say that I come from a country where freedom of speech and thought are higly praised ( but unfortunately it is getting less and less) I find it hard to swallow that you don't miss it.

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naked_runner February 20 2008, 08:29:50 UTC
Of course that wasn't a choice. And no one was given a real choice back then (except for few privileged).

I'm not sure I understand the last phrase, though. You mean Flake doesn't miss it, or me, or the people in the former communist bloc?

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mutter12 February 20 2008, 08:46:32 UTC
Sorry I will try to explain ( reading that last sentence you were right it didn't make sense)
Flake is living in freedom now and can speak out his mind (if we agree with it or not) sth you def couldn't do in East Germany...how can you then say that you are not missing that and that you felt having a choice..
I wonder how you feel about it....Do you ever miss any part of it...I know it is also not perfect at the moment, but that also counts for Holland .

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naked_runner February 20 2008, 08:55:28 UTC
Ah, I thought that might be it, but I wanted to make sure.

No, I don't regret any part of it. At least from my point of view, there was nothing good about it.

Why do you say it counts also for Holland?

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mutter12 February 20 2008, 09:12:33 UTC
Holland becomes a scary country at this moment, ppl cannot say what they want to say ( it is not forbidden by law, but if you speak out your mind death threats are passed over)
The line between church and goverment is narrowing down and I think that is not good, for anybody....Ppl feel scared, looking for scapegoats and the differences are getting harder and more serious

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naked_runner February 20 2008, 09:26:21 UTC
Oh wow I didn't know all that. But why? Who's passing death threats? (When you come to think that Holland was thought as one of the countries with the best freedom of everything...)

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mutter12 February 20 2008, 09:39:39 UTC
We have some real scary right wing parties coming up and they shout a lot, so there are extreme muslims that threaten to kill them.
Persons that think that Muslims causing all problems in the world( unemployment, famine, war you name it) and they should be hanged quartered and drowned for it.
Yes we use to be very tolerant, but things are changing for the worse, ppl worry only about themselves, and the media is creating a hype, and the government make sure that we all scared so they can push all get kind of bad stuff into our throughts....but at least we do have a choice and we do have the freedom to protest ( not that they will listen(
SOrry to sound so negative or pessimistic.

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naked_runner February 20 2008, 10:10:17 UTC
The extreme right wing and extreme Muslims should be locked in a room together and left there to eat each other.

Well, the Govt. politics is usually divide and conquer. They usually distract the attention of the population with bogus issues and instill fear of bogus enemies. Some of the tactics of manipulation, so they can do whatever they want. Usually to get themselves and their friends/relatives rich.

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