Just FYI:

Nov 08, 2008 20:18

It is not statistically possible that the high turnout of black voters on Tuesday led to the passing of Prop 8.

Let us give credit where credit is due, my petits loups. Hate and stupidity do not have a skin color.

gay, politics

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pixxelpuss November 9 2008, 04:38:46 UTC
The problem here is that we cannot pretend that it is Only white evangelicals who voted against gay marriage. They simply don't exist in large enough quantities in California to push this over the edge, and if they did, Obama wouldn't have won California.

My point is not that being a racial minority predisposes anyone to bigotry, far from it. However, many minority groups have found religion to be a strong cultural tie, and much of that cultural religious identification is associated with conservative political ideals (again, these are not homogeneous groups, and what is true in general is not universally true). My primary concern here is that we are so sensitized to the possibility that we might accidentally scapegoat some racial minority that we are failing to address the very real (and acknowledged by Obama himself) issue of homophobia in racial minority religious groups. Obama actively courted homophobic AA church-goers (which does not by any means represent ALL AA church-goers, BTW) by campaigning multiple times with homophobic gospel artists in his much touted faith tours. He also made a cursory attempt to address homophobia in Black Christian communities. However, it is not insignificant that Barack Obama's own words against gay marriage were used in the anti-gay marriage propaganda sent out in California.

As Democrats, we depend on all manner of minority groups for the election of Democratic candidates, but religious/cultural subgroups simply Do Not always share the same ideals as the progressives, and Prop 8 was this ideological divide coming home to roost. It is time that we acknowledge that and figure out what comes next. To be fair, the Dems don't have a stellar history so far as actually meeting the needs of minority communities across the board, whether they be the Queer community or the communities of people of color. That also obviously needs to change. But nothing can change unless it is first acknowledged.

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ginmar November 9 2008, 05:38:38 UTC
You're missing the whole point. If AA's make up six fucking percent of the goddamned CA population, why yap about them when there's so many MILLION more people---who, oh, happen to be white?!---to blame it on?

Blah, blah, blahdeblah, you're still trying to nail it on minorities and let evangelicals off scott free. Well, my God, it must've been unicorns!

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Surprising revelations: pixxelpuss November 9 2008, 06:40:08 UTC
Evangelicals opposing gay marriage is not new. Conservatives opposing gay marriage is not new. Democratic candidates who expect the full support of the LGBT community yet who are totally unwilling to do a damn thing to deserve it are fucking hypocrites, and yet they're the only kind of Dem leaders to get elected.

If a huge majority of the LGBT community voted to remove civil rights for people of color, I'd be pissed too. I am angry that religious values trump social justice, even among the supposed white hats, and that we're so busy avoiding stepping on toes that we can't be bothered to consider the fact that maybe its hypocritical for the Dems to claim to be looking out for the little guy while they still court the votes of the closed-minded. It's a broken fucking system, and yes, that bothers me.

If you'd rather stick your head in the sand than think about the fact that we espouse progressive values but refuse to do anything to stick up for them, that's your prerogative. But don't expect me to spend time in denial about the fact that the moderate Dems (of whatever motherfucking cultural group) are responsible for the betrayal of my community.

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Re: Surprising revelations: ginmar November 9 2008, 06:57:20 UTC
Don't forget the part about blaming black people and just brushing off religion. Nice job of avoiding that whole thing.

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Re: Surprising revelations: pixxelpuss November 9 2008, 07:09:06 UTC
Yes. The recognition of factually accurate trends in communities is totally racism. I guess I'm a huge fucking racist for pointing out that sharia law is misogynist, or that female genital mutilation is a bad thing. I'm just a big bad bigot if I think that facts have anything to do with a discussion about a group of people. Sorry to harsh your cultural relativist mellow.

So, I suppose Obama was a massive fucking racist when he talked about homophobia in Black religious communities. Yeah, what a fucking bigot that guy is. How dare he!

I'm not suggesting that a small bloc of voters are wholly responsible for the passage of Prop 8. I'm suggesting that several blocs of voters were responsible for the passage of Prop 8, and that some of those blocs were supposed allies. But nope, there is only room for one oppressed minority in cultural discourse at a time. My bad. Fuck the women. Fuck the Jews. Fuck the Latinos. Fuck the Asians. Fuck the Native Americans. Fuck the Disabled. Fuck the Deaf. Fuck the Queers. Nobody must mention anything that might reflect badly on the African-American population, even if it is true. Because that would be RACIST, and the right-thinking cultural-relativism mob won't tolerate it.

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Drama's no substitute for logic ginmar November 9 2008, 07:13:13 UTC
Aren't you the dramatic one? Tedious. The whole point of the fucking post....Oh, wait, but I pointed that out already. Do go on yapping about how it's not racist to fixate on just one tiny group while ignoring the vast one that accomplished what you're complaining about.

I haven't the time to bother any further.

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Re: Drama's no substitute for logic pixxelpuss November 9 2008, 07:19:17 UTC
Are you sure? You don't have some kind of hopey-changey burning of Sarah Palin in effigy you can cancel to stay home and chat with me?

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You really are inattentive, aren't you? ginmar November 9 2008, 08:30:08 UTC
As a matter of fact, I did a post criticizing that very event.

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Re: You really are inattentive, aren't you? pixxelpuss November 9 2008, 08:34:00 UTC
Oh damn. And I have SO meant to read your entire journal archives.

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So...from Hillary to Palin? How does that work? All that's needed is a vagina? ginmar November 9 2008, 08:40:28 UTC
Anyone who bitches about loss of gay rights while supporting McCain and Palin would probably want to avoid it.

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Re: So...from Hillary to Palin? How does that work? All that's needed is a vagina? pixxelpuss November 9 2008, 08:49:10 UTC
And god knows that Obama's supporters had nothing to Do with identity politics, right? Or is that RACIST of me to point out?

Anyone who claims to care about gay rights or women's rights should never have voted for Obama in the first place.

But man, I do love vaginas. That's how I was going to pull the lever.

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Oh, YOU live in that perfect world, right? ginmar November 9 2008, 08:54:32 UTC
THe one where there's only perfect candidates and you're the only person in the world? Nice if you're a PUMA.

And you still dodge the issue. By supporting McCain and Palin with your stupid little protest, you're fucking gay rights. Don't come whining to me.

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Re: Oh, YOU live in that perfect world, right? pixxelpuss November 9 2008, 09:12:25 UTC
What? Don't come whining to you? But aren't you my mommy?

Yeah. I totally fucked gay rights by supporting a candidate who won't even pose for pictures with gay allies, and who emphatically pushes the idea that gay marriage is a state issue. Oh no, wait. That's You.

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You're the one who suports the woman with the 'but some of my friends are gay" ginmar November 9 2008, 09:22:36 UTC
So you want gay rights. So you support anti gay people. I mean, people who voted for this shit that you're whining about right fucking NOW.

Oh, God, this is the bestest thing EVAR!

Comparing John McCain to Barack Obama on the subject of gay rights is about as desperate as comparing.....John McCain to Barack Obama. Yeah. I mean, you just REFUSE to admit how fucked up that is! It's absolutely delightful! A PUMA in the wild!

Dear friends: Please observe a PUMA in the wild, in its natural habitat, bitching about the things that it would seize from other people. Do not poke at it about logic, it just gets angry.

God, I can just imagine you defending your thesis. What a treat. I envy your advisor.

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I support the candidate who marched in a Pride Parade... pixxelpuss November 9 2008, 09:32:49 UTC
... As opposed to the one that would only meet with gay supporters in a basement and refused to speak to the gay press. How bizarre.

It's totally laughable to compare two candidates on a policy issue. Because they presumably differ in some way! Yeah, as soon as BO passes some substantive legislation that does anything to better the station of women or the queer community, I'll get right on with the genuflecting. Meanwhile, you feel free to delight in my idiosyncrasies.

Because we all know that Obama went all out in his defense of gay marriage this time around, right?

You are so sweet to be concerned about my dissertation. If you don't mind, I do still need case studies on the delusional and mentally stunted. Are you available?

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You can just look right in the mirror... ginmar November 9 2008, 09:44:23 UTC
....Where you probably spend most of your time.

You're voting the past. I'm voting the future. You're supporting hatred, bigotry, and injustice because you didn't get the most cake. You want everything to be perfect so you support the most vile people in the name of some protest that hurts other people, then you refuse to admit your protest might cost you something. You blame everybody but yourself for the outcome of your own actions, and then you dare to act all superior. You made your bed. Lie in it. Hope you like fundies. You'd get fucked by them an awful lot if you'd have had any power in this election. Instead, it's other people you consign to that fucking. What a compassionless, arrogant, soulless little creature you are. No joke. I'm serious now. It's one thing to damage one's self in the name of principle; it's other people you want to bear your burdens, and I'm one of them. And then you have the temerity to bitch when you get bit by the weapon you yourself picked; your bigoted, hateful allies.

I'm done, college girl. I honestly hope that gay rights will be secured across this whole country, and I will do whatever I can to secure those rights. I voted the way I did so that it was a possibility. I'm poor, uneducated, and I vote for practicality, not perfection. I haven't that luxury. Obama has his flaws, but McCain has character chasms, and you deserve one another.

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