(no subject)
ash of a pheonix: hi
PhaedrusLysias: hello.
ash of a pheonix: "Truly fertile Music, the only kind that will move us, that we shall truly appreciate, will be a Music conducive to Dream, which banishes all reason and analysis. One must not wish first to understand and then to feel. Art does not tolerate Reason."
Albert Camus (1913-1960), French Philosopher in “Essay on Music", 1932
ash of a pheonix: thats an amzing qoute
ash of a pheonix: i thought id share it
ash of a pheonix: so hows life going
PhaedrusLysias: alright.
PhaedrusLysias: I kind of disagree with the quote, though.
ash of a pheonix: I havent thought much into it
ash of a pheonix: i just came across it
ash of a pheonix: in reading
ash of a pheonix: at the moment
ash of a pheonix: i imed you
ash of a pheonix: and thought id share it
PhaedrusLysias: ah
ash of a pheonix: i like camus
ash of a pheonix: generally
ash of a pheonix: though
PhaedrusLysias: I have one of his books, but I haven't read it, yet.
ash of a pheonix: I like him better than Satre
ash of a pheonix: When Existentialist ties into political systems... i prefer camus is view to satre's
ash of a pheonix: I dont understand how sartres ties existentialism to marxism
PhaedrusLysias: well, it shouldn't have to be.
PhaedrusLysias: I mean, existentialism focuses on personal values quite a lot, Marxism generally...doesn't.
ash of a pheonix: exactly
ash of a pheonix: feeling any better
PhaedrusLysias: when feeling at all? I'm not sure
ash of a pheonix: basically hows your depression coming along
PhaedrusLysias: about the same, really.
ash of a pheonix: okay
ash of a pheonix: what did you do to day
PhaedrusLysias: slept, mostly.
ash of a pheonix: really
PhaedrusLysias: yeah
PhaedrusLysias: I was up until 4 last night.
ash of a pheonix: thats my usuall bed time
ash of a pheonix: =)
PhaedrusLysias: eh.
PhaedrusLysias: well, it's not really mine.
ash of a pheonix: i had a rather interesting day
PhaedrusLysias: how so?
ash of a pheonix: yesterday
ash of a pheonix: it was the last day of classes
PhaedrusLysias: oh.
ash of a pheonix: and my faculty(college) holds a concert every year, which point is to host 15000 completley drunk people, i told my self the last month i wouldn't go.
ash of a pheonix: I woke up head to classes, and my floor was already drinking 5 minutes later i found my self with a bottle of Rum and 5 mini bottles of vodka in my back pack heading to philosophy
ash of a pheonix: which incidently had only one other person show up
ash of a pheonix: followed by spanish which had 8 people show up.
ash of a pheonix: 8 or 40 that is
ash of a pheonix: of not or *
PhaedrusLysias: wow.
ash of a pheonix: by the way the bottle of rum i had...
ash of a pheonix: well i don't know where it came from
PhaedrusLysias: wow.
PhaedrusLysias: that's crazy.
ash of a pheonix: so a t 1 my floor finally convince me to drink
ash of a pheonix: i who hadn't drank in 5 months
ash of a pheonix: found my self completley trashed.
ash of a pheonix: and went to this event... lost my shoes some how and found my bottle of rum empty when i came back
ash of a pheonix: and also my bottle of Sake
ash of a pheonix: and also 4 of my twists
ash of a pheonix: so i m wondering
ash of a pheonix: how much i actually drank
ash of a pheonix: and the fact htat i was drunk fro 8 hours doesnt help either.
PhaedrusLysias: wow.
PhaedrusLysias: that's insane.
ash of a pheonix: yeah
ash of a pheonix: I experienced my first hang over....
ash of a pheonix: so im not going to be drinkng any time soon
PhaedrusLysias: yeah...
PhaedrusLysias: I'm guessing it sucked?
ash of a pheonix: yeah
ash of a pheonix: i passed out ( fell asleep unintnetionally not actually passed out) about 8
ash of a pheonix: and woke up at 11
ash of a pheonix: and couldnt get back to sleep
ash of a pheonix: because of the hang over
ash of a pheonix: i fell asleep at 4
PhaedrusLysias: eesh.
ash of a pheonix: and woke up at 12
ash of a pheonix: and went to take a standardized test
ash of a pheonix: at 1:30
ash of a pheonix: then went and ate indian instead of going to formal dinner
ash of a pheonix: cuz i hate formal stuff
ash of a pheonix: so theres my weekend
PhaedrusLysias: crazy weekend.
ash of a pheonix: yeah
ash of a pheonix: you should
ash of a pheonix: join me two years from now
ash of a pheonix: and experience ACF and vancouver for your self
ash of a pheonix: or actually wait till 2010
PhaedrusLysias: why two years from now?
ash of a pheonix: your 19 then i presume
ash of a pheonix: ?
PhaedrusLysias: well, more than that, actually.
PhaedrusLysias: two years, and a little over a month.
PhaedrusLysias: I'm still 16, actually.
ash of a pheonix: then in 3 years
ash of a pheonix: wow your a young one
PhaedrusLysias: yeah, I guess so.
ash of a pheonix: but not younger than me
PhaedrusLysias: I don't really think about my age.
ash of a pheonix: in relative
ash of a pheonix: comparison
ash of a pheonix: I turned 16 my junior year on september
PhaedrusLysias: hm.
PhaedrusLysias: yeah
PhaedrusLysias: I'll be 17 in a month and 8 days.
PhaedrusLysias: so, relatively, no.
ash of a pheonix: i turned 17 my senior year
ash of a pheonix: when i said relative
PhaedrusLysias: I know what you mean.
ash of a pheonix: im a past cutoff
ash of a pheonix: technically i should have graduated this year
ash of a pheonix: not last
PhaedrusLysias: what day in september?
ash of a pheonix: 4
ash of a pheonix: 1
PhaedrusLysias: ah.
ash of a pheonix: is the cutoff
PhaedrusLysias: you're only a little older than Kari, actually.
PhaedrusLysias: wait, you aren't 19 then, right?
ash of a pheonix: yea
ash of a pheonix: i got in with a fake
PhaedrusLysias: ah.
PhaedrusLysias: hm. I haven't thought about how old I was in a while.
PhaedrusLysias: it's an odd thought, that I'm still 16. I don't feel 16.
ash of a pheonix: i was thinking
ash of a pheonix: the same thing
ash of a pheonix: you dont seem like your 16
PhaedrusLysias: no, it's very odd that I'm one of the youngest students in my class, isn't it?
ash of a pheonix: well the age differnec between 16 or 17 isnt big
ash of a pheonix: but you a junior
ash of a pheonix: which is odd... i havent seen you
ash of a pheonix: junior year is the people grow most in high school
ash of a pheonix: but you seem like you've already done alot of thag rowing
PhaedrusLysias: yeah, I think so.
ash of a pheonix: well your juniors over
ash of a pheonix: but have you felt like youve grown
PhaedrusLysias: well, physically, or mentally?
ash of a pheonix: mentally
PhaedrusLysias: not as much as last year, but yes, I have.
ash of a pheonix: hmmm...
ash of a pheonix: thats odd
ash of a pheonix: most guys grow up
ash of a pheonix: the most between
ash of a pheonix: 15-16
ash of a pheonix: and 16 to 17
ash of a pheonix: usually 16 to 17
PhaedrusLysias: well, 15-16 was last year.
ash of a pheonix: is the bigger growth
ash of a pheonix: so its oddd
ash of a pheonix: anindo's theory of growing
ash of a pheonix: age 3 sentience
ash of a pheonix: un develope
ash of a pheonix: age 12 not complete sentience
PhaedrusLysias: well, I guess it may be about the same last year as this year...?
PhaedrusLysias: I'm not really sure. There's not a way to measure it, really
ash of a pheonix: 15 reaches complete self awarenes
ash of a pheonix: and starts to actually grow up
ash of a pheonix: 16 grows up
ash of a pheonix: 17 actually a semi intellegent being
PhaedrusLysias: hm.
PhaedrusLysias: well, I've gained a lot more self-understanding this year.
PhaedrusLysias: but, as for growing up, that depends on how you define it.
ash of a pheonix: yeah
ash of a pheonix: well
ash of a pheonix: thats part of growing up
PhaedrusLysias: yeah.
PhaedrusLysias: but, I'm curious as to how you would define maturity.
ash of a pheonix: its not something i define in words, something i look and see its based on the way one acts and thinks...
ash of a pheonix: i geuss i pay attention if one acts in a mature fashion and does so authentically not because mommy said this is the way to act
ash of a pheonix: i define them as mature
PhaedrusLysias: well. That's not helpful.
PhaedrusLysias: a "mature fashion" could be just about anything.
ash of a pheonix: but mature fashion
ash of a pheonix: is what i think is a mature fasahion
ash of a pheonix: maturity it self that is a point of view
ash of a pheonix: their is no objective maturity
PhaedrusLysias: true.
ash of a pheonix: if you were the only person on the plannet... the only person to define maturity is you
PhaedrusLysias: but there should be a way of breaking down what "maturity" means into other words, even if they are still subjective.
ash of a pheonix: yeah
ash of a pheonix: but what i define as maturity
ash of a pheonix: cant be categorically broken down
ash of a pheonix: what makes one mature isnt acting in one particular
ash of a pheonix: way
ash of a pheonix: there are different qualities to maturity
ash of a pheonix: i would say your mature...
ash of a pheonix: though.
PhaedrusLysias: hm
PhaedrusLysias: I'm not sure.
ash of a pheonix: in relative to your age group
PhaedrusLysias: well, yes.
ash of a pheonix: compared to the average junior
ash of a pheonix: mature is a realtive to something
PhaedrusLysias: although, is there a point in comparing me to averages?
ash of a pheonix: yes
PhaedrusLysias: I'm not really an average in anything.
ash of a pheonix: do you mind me speaking openly
PhaedrusLysias: go ahead.
ash of a pheonix: thats your weakness.
PhaedrusLysias: how so?
ash of a pheonix: your too sure of your self and head strong
ash of a pheonix: and many way its good
ash of a pheonix: but it also limits potential, by assuming your above average it prevents you from reaching higher.
ash of a pheonix: in someways
PhaedrusLysias: I didn't say I was necessarily above average.
ash of a pheonix: because it limits a drive to strive for more.
PhaedrusLysias: I just said I wasn't average.
PhaedrusLysias: in some things, I'm below, in others, I'm below.
ash of a pheonix: i understood
PhaedrusLysias: also, I don't think that's my weakness.
ash of a pheonix: thats fine
ash of a pheonix: but joel
PhaedrusLysias: you may be right, but I disagree.
ash of a pheonix: this is my opinion
ash of a pheonix: assume nothing
PhaedrusLysias: ok
ash of a pheonix: it opens your view much more
ash of a pheonix: of your self
ash of a pheonix: and of others
ash of a pheonix: i may look like im very judgemental
ash of a pheonix: because of type
ash of a pheonix: but its very hard for people to make me have afixed opinion of anything
PhaedrusLysias: well, no, I can easily see how you would think that.
PhaedrusLysias: most people think that I'm some sort of overconfident, arrogant jerk.
ash of a pheonix: i tend to stick head strong to my beliefs and values. but i define them
ash of a pheonix: i can and change them.
ash of a pheonix: your not
ash of a pheonix: i know you dont
ash of a pheonix: i know you take pride in your abilities
ash of a pheonix: which is a good thing
PhaedrusLysias: yes, but I also admit when I'm wrong.
ash of a pheonix: yes you do
PhaedrusLysias: most people don't see that side.
ash of a pheonix: i was just talking to licki
ash of a pheonix: that some part of me thinks that you and i think on very similiar terms in many ways, and i wouldnt think of you as that
ash of a pheonix: if you were an arrogant jerk
ash of a pheonix: and i know your not full of your self or think you wrong
PhaedrusLysias: ok.
ash of a pheonix: im just saying
ash of a pheonix: this is my opinion
ash of a pheonix: assume nothing
ash of a pheonix: it alienates
ash of a pheonix: you more
ash of a pheonix: in many ways
ash of a pheonix: but it prepares you for realitiy of things
PhaedrusLysias: I understand that.
PhaedrusLysias: I agree that it alienates me more.
ash of a pheonix: for me if i assumed something i think id be happier
ash of a pheonix: but i dont.
ash of a pheonix: I explained you long time ago i have no confidence in anyone or anything, and that is because i do not assume anything as objectiveley true.
PhaedrusLysias: hm.
ash of a pheonix: i told you a while ago in a conversation that i dont have any confidences in any relation ships... and that is because i make no assumptions about my own relationship. My assumption is that if i am talking to you theres is possiblity that you in this very moment X will decide that you don't want anything to do with me and express so,
ash of a pheonix: i carry this view every where
ash of a pheonix: when i judge someones character its not a fixed view
ash of a pheonix: my opinion of someone or something can change,
ash of a pheonix: but its very hard for person X to change it
PhaedrusLysias: hm
PhaedrusLysias: that's interesting.
ash of a pheonix: I used to be die hard liberal
ash of a pheonix: but now i question manythings after taking economics
ash of a pheonix: and ect.
ash of a pheonix: As i learn things my opinion change, but its very hard for someone to persuade me through oration or an argument. I have to see something to believe
ash of a pheonix: it a judgement of character, comes from action history
ash of a pheonix: how you act in a particular situation
ash of a pheonix: your aura
ash of a pheonix: the motive behind the action
ash of a pheonix: and what i can see you surpression
ash of a pheonix: in a short time i begin to pay attention to behaviour pattern of individual and thats how i form a judgement on character, if behaviour pattern suddenly changes i changed judgement, if the behaviour pattern is undidentifiable i cannot trust the individual on any level
ash of a pheonix: but the fact that i think that a behaviour pattern can change stems from assuming nothing. I do not assume that a person will continue following th pattern the exhibit.
PhaedrusLysias: huh.
PhaedrusLysias: so, really, you're making that statement based on what you know of me from when you could observe me?
ash of a pheonix: yeah in a sense
ash of a pheonix: basically what im saying i dont assume that the way you act today, or the last two years. means that youll act that way tomorrow.
ash of a pheonix: What i read about you who you are is a sum total of what i obseve of you over a course of time.
PhaedrusLysias: that makes sense.
ash of a pheonix: and the last thing about assume nothing is my own self.
ash of a pheonix: this often makes me look like i completeley lack confidence
ash of a pheonix: i dont assume im good any thing
ash of a pheonix: people tell me im intellegent
ash of a pheonix: i think in relative to my peers at ubc im below average or average...
ash of a pheonix: I dont assume im really that good at guitar relative to my peers.
PhaedrusLysias: that's kind of weird.
ash of a pheonix: nor do I assume i am good at anything in particular, including reading people. This seems opposite to what i normally say, but this is a fact i dont trust my intuition or judgement on the way someone will act. Its caused me some problems, because its turned that hunches i generally write off as over reading the situation are correct.
ash of a pheonix: I never asume a given person will act a certain way.
PhaedrusLysias: hm. I've always thought that understanding yourself, and especially what you're capable of, is important.
ash of a pheonix: its wierd how to explain it
ash of a pheonix: i know what im capable of
ash of a pheonix: and i understand my self better than most people
ash of a pheonix: but basically
ash of a pheonix: what im saying
ash of a pheonix: is none of my beliefs of what i am
ash of a pheonix: are solid belief
ash of a pheonix: s
PhaedrusLysias: well, no one's should be.
PhaedrusLysias: you're constantly changing.
ash of a pheonix: i try my best to assume nothing
ash of a pheonix: but its important to remember that this is cartesian sense,
ash of a pheonix: i just believe by assuming nothing ill be less likeley to be surprised by anything, also i wont limite something or someone based on my expectations
ash of a pheonix: of them
ash of a pheonix: including my self.
ash of a pheonix: by having solid beliefs, you make an assumption taht something is true, then attempt to conform it to true, and i geuss this leads
ash of a pheonix: to self deception
ash of a pheonix: or Satres concept of
PhaedrusLysias: maybe.
PhaedrusLysias: on the other hand, you choose what you are, so, by seeing one thing as the truth, you're choosing to be that, and doing what is required to make that choice real.
ash of a pheonix: maybe
ash of a pheonix: but in my mind by assuming nothing, you can create what you are.because you have no limitations, not even limitations you set for your self
ash of a pheonix: assuming something even about the self limits it to be this set of properties, ect
PhaedrusLysias: yes, but by assuming nothing, you aren't really being anything, are you?
ash of a pheonix: yes and no... i assume im niether, smart nor dumb,
ash of a pheonix: but that does not limit
ash of a pheonix: my ability
ash of a pheonix: to be either or
PhaedrusLysias: but you don't want to be dumb.
ash of a pheonix: i dont want to be dumb
ash of a pheonix: but it wouldnt change if im dumb or not
ash of a pheonix: would it
PhaedrusLysias: if you decided not to be, it might.
ash of a pheonix: but i dont assume im not dumb, but through my own actions, and i can shape whether i am dumb.
ash of a pheonix: what we are arguing
ash of a pheonix: is the nature of transcendencea
ash of a pheonix: and this could take all night
PhaedrusLysias: it could.
ash of a pheonix: do you understand transcendence
PhaedrusLysias: I'm not familiar with the term.
PhaedrusLysias: but I might understand the concept, anyway.
ash of a pheonix: okay
ash of a pheonix: two concepts
ash of a pheonix: facticitiy
ash of a pheonix: your facticity is all the facts about you third person
ash of a pheonix: your name is joel wolfe
ash of a pheonix: you are X heigh
ash of a pheonix: you are caucasian
ash of a pheonix: you are american
ash of a pheonix: your were born X
ash of a pheonix: you have X political views
ash of a pheonix: your familiy is X way
PhaedrusLysias: right.
PhaedrusLysias: I understand facticity.
ash of a pheonix: at 7:40 november 27 2006 you do X
ash of a pheonix: okay
ash of a pheonix: Transcendence
ash of a pheonix: is the stance on your facticity
ash of a pheonix: from a third person stance
ash of a pheonix: your Facticity defines you
ash of a pheonix: from a first person stance
ash of a pheonix: your facticity
ash of a pheonix: are properties about you
ash of a pheonix: existentialist believe you take a first person transcendence
ash of a pheonix: i think both of us agree on this
PhaedrusLysias: yes.
ash of a pheonix: the term intellegent is a characteristic of a person
ash of a pheonix: ect.
ash of a pheonix: to elliminate a third person view of transcendence you must assume nothing
ash of a pheonix: because by assuming something you make a claim to a facticicity of something.
ash of a pheonix: and from third person stand point define something
ash of a pheonix: your arguing you can assume somehting but must do so from first person transcendence
PhaedrusLysias: but there's a difference between "third person" and "objective," odmy
PhaedrusLysias: *isn't there?
ash of a pheonix: not in existential term
ash of a pheonix: s
ash of a pheonix: third person is an objective claim
PhaedrusLysias: well.
ash of a pheonix: first person is subjective
ash of a pheonix: or in this sense
ash of a pheonix: if tehre are only two views
ash of a pheonix: subjective and objective
ash of a pheonix: third person msut be objective
PhaedrusLysias: then, assuming nothing doesn't eliminate the third person view, it eliminates any view, really.
ash of a pheonix: you cannot have a third person subjective
PhaedrusLysias: because making an assumption doesn't imply subjectivity or objectivity, it just implies that you're claiming something as "truth" without "evidence"
PhaedrusLysias: you could be assuming subjective truth.
ash of a pheonix: i think
ash of a pheonix: your going
ash of a pheonix: into kierkagaard
ash of a pheonix: leap of faith now
ash of a pheonix: i see your point
ash of a pheonix: i think you may fully understanding, im not saying you cant have belief X
ash of a pheonix: what i mean by assumption is permanent.
ash of a pheonix: so making an assumption
ash of a pheonix: makes a claim towards a facticity
ash of a pheonix: and i missed one thing about transcendence
ash of a pheonix: you are capable
ash of a pheonix: of having a third person
ash of a pheonix: stance towards your self
ash of a pheonix: you can change your own stance that is a cricitcal
ash of a pheonix: idea in existentialism
ash of a pheonix: thats where the idea of free will comes from
ash of a pheonix: the fact taht you chan change stance towards your facticity shows that you transcend your facticity
PhaedrusLysias: right.
PhaedrusLysias: but, isn't it easier to just reject the facticity as truth in the first place?
ash of a pheonix: this is what one calls analytic argument.
ash of a pheonix: you have to have a complete argument
ash of a pheonix: im arguing existentailly in analytic sense
ash of a pheonix: or as much as possible
ash of a pheonix: the reason existentialism is not analytic is the way they introduce their
ash of a pheonix: ideas
ash of a pheonix: tehy introduce it through stories and metaphor
ash of a pheonix: analytic philosophy is written like this
ash of a pheonix: no bull shit
ash of a pheonix: Paragraphi is clearly contstructed logical, as concise as possible terms clearly defined.
ash of a pheonix: Thesis's can actually be as straightforward as I assert there is no god because of X.
ash of a pheonix: So my case of assume nothing
ash of a pheonix: is that when one makes an assumption
ash of a pheonix: one is making a third person claim towards facticity
ash of a pheonix: either of them selves
ash of a pheonix: or someone else
ash of a pheonix: and one should not do so.
ash of a pheonix: ** (Joel disappeared)"**
PhaedrusLysias: er.
PhaedrusLysias: I'm here.
PhaedrusLysias: I think there's a flaw in that argument, and I think it lies in the assumption that facticity is necessarily third-person.
ash of a pheonix: your right its not. nessacarily
ash of a pheonix: but the role facticity plays is defined
ash of a pheonix: by first and third person
ash of a pheonix: from a third person stand point
ash of a pheonix: facticity
ash of a pheonix: defines the substance.
ash of a pheonix: from a first person standpoint facticity is just properties of the substance and cant whole y define substance
ash of a pheonix: my argument
ash of a pheonix: is that an assumption X, makes X an defining characterestic of one Facticity
ash of a pheonix: because from a first person standpoint
ash of a pheonix: facticity is not defining
ash of a pheonix: and there fore is nto fixed, they are the properties of objects. For example from a first person stand point character, you can add character trait such as organized to your facticity by acting in an organized mannar and choosing to do so. This gives you a property of organized from a third person standpoint
ash of a pheonix: but this is not assuming your organized
ash of a pheonix: assuming that joel is organized means that joel is organized in all cases X
ash of a pheonix: and that htis is a defining characteristic
ash of a pheonix: now do you see my argument ?
PhaedrusLysias: yes, I think so.
PhaedrusLysias: I disagree. I think that choice can and does define and supercede facticity in many cases.
ash of a pheonix: i agree with you
ash of a pheonix: your mising my argument.
ash of a pheonix: you can change your choice
PhaedrusLysias: yes, you can.
PhaedrusLysias: wait, I may agree with you.
ash of a pheonix: im saying an assumption you cant change
PhaedrusLysias: oh, ok.
PhaedrusLysias: then, I think I do agree.
ash of a pheonix: think philosophy.... joel
PhaedrusLysias: I just think of an assumption as something that is changable.
ash of a pheonix: if one changes the assumption that human nature can only be understood through existance
ash of a pheonix: one no longer
ash of a pheonix: has existentialism
PhaedrusLysias: true,
PhaedrusLysias: but one is still making a choice to not make that assumption.
PhaedrusLysias: existentialism isn't a permanent thing.
ash of a pheonix: Joel to understand an analytic argument
ash of a pheonix: you must realized
ash of a pheonix: taht a term is clearly defined
ash of a pheonix: the way i am using assumption in this argument is not dispituable, to dispute it changes the definition and changes assumption in the context
ash of a pheonix: i am not saying existentialism is permanent
ash of a pheonix: one cannot get the underlying
ash of a pheonix: ideas in existentialism
ash of a pheonix: with out having
ash of a pheonix: that assumption
ash of a pheonix: thats why the assumption in a philosophy is not disputable, if you disagree with the assumption you disagree with the philosophy it self. and You do have the choice to do that but your no longer arguing the same philosophy
ash of a pheonix: because the assumption
ash of a pheonix: is the defining
ash of a pheonix: characteristic of the philosophy
ash of a pheonix: by rejectiing the assumption you reject the whole.
PhaedrusLysias: that's what I meant. I meant that one doesn't have to be an existentialist just because one chooses to be an existentialist once. I should word things better.
ash of a pheonix: yeah
ash of a pheonix: i agree with you.
ash of a pheonix: but i just want to make sure you understand what assumption means.
PhaedrusLysias: yeah, I think I do.
PhaedrusLysias: it's just late.
ash of a pheonix: assumption is a defining characteristic, a characteristic which with out the entity would not be.
ash of a pheonix: With out the assumption X philosophy X does not exist
PhaedrusLysias: right.
ash of a pheonix: you understand it has nothing to do with your view on philosophy X
PhaedrusLysias: right.
PhaedrusLysias: so, are you saying the same thing when you say, "make no assumptions"?
ash of a pheonix: exactly
PhaedrusLysias: because that doesn't make sense.
PhaedrusLysias: that means that nothing has a set definition
PhaedrusLysias: that properties don't imply anything.
ash of a pheonix: and that is a key idea of existentialism
ash of a pheonix: there is nothing you should be
PhaedrusLysias: yes, I agree.
PhaedrusLysias: I just don't understand the difference between saying that, and that something that a property of a dog is that it has four legs.
ash of a pheonix: if you make an assumption about X you should have the assumption to be
ash of a pheonix: okay im glad
ash of a pheonix: were on the same page
ash of a pheonix: i didnt think it was something you'd disagree with me on. (this is not an assumption, it is not a defining property of what makes joel, if you disagreed you'd still be joel)
PhaedrusLysias: well, I'm not sure if I agree or not.
PhaedrusLysias: as I said, it's late.
ash of a pheonix: i think you do
ash of a pheonix: but your not awaake enough
ash of a pheonix: to actually get it
PhaedrusLysias: probably.
ash of a pheonix: because you comprehend my argument.
ash of a pheonix: and from my perspective
PhaedrusLysias: yeah, something isn't clicking, though.
ash of a pheonix: your looking at the leaves
ash of a pheonix: and missing the forest
ash of a pheonix: by the way leaves arent defining characteristic of a forest
PhaedrusLysias: maybe the leaves are more interesting...
ash of a pheonix: forests dont have to have leaves to be a forest
PhaedrusLysias: wait.
PhaedrusLysias: I think I understand now
PhaedrusLysias: a "forest" doesn't have to have anything to be a "forest"
PhaedrusLysias: is that it
PhaedrusLysias: ?
ash of a pheonix: in a sense yes... but it does have some defining charactecteristics that make it a forest
ash of a pheonix: a better analogy
ash of a pheonix: is your dog
ash of a pheonix: dogs have four legs
ash of a pheonix: are a property of a dog
PhaedrusLysias: well, not all dogs.
ash of a pheonix: but its not a defining characteristic
ash of a pheonix: bingo
ash of a pheonix: it doesnt have to have four legs
ash of a pheonix: to be a dog
PhaedrusLysias: right.
PhaedrusLysias: it's late.
PhaedrusLysias: I think I'll go to bed.
ash of a pheonix: okay
ash of a pheonix: sleep on it
ash of a pheonix: kid
PhaedrusLysias: yeah.
ash of a pheonix: i think you almost have it
PhaedrusLysias: I can see it.
PhaedrusLysias: I just don't have it quite yet. I probably will before I get to sleep.
ash of a pheonix: got it.
ash of a pheonix: how was your first taste
ash of a pheonix: of analytic
ash of a pheonix: philosophy
ash of a pheonix: or anlytic style
ash of a pheonix: of philosophy
PhaedrusLysias: interesting.
PhaedrusLysias: it's full of technicalities.
ash of a pheonix: analytic
ash of a pheonix: is that philosophy
ash of a pheonix: has a methodolgy
ash of a pheonix: so it has to have rules
ash of a pheonix: to it game
PhaedrusLysias: yeah.
ash of a pheonix: existentialist
ash of a pheonix: are funamentally opposed to the argument
ash of a pheonix: but i believe to communicate our ideas
ash of a pheonix: to analytic
ash of a pheonix: we must do so in their language
ash of a pheonix: they wont relate other wise
PhaedrusLysias: yeah...
PhaedrusLysias: well, I'll sleep on it.
PhaedrusLysias: so, goodnight.
ash of a pheonix: bye