Based on what I have of your comment, I would have *loved* the full version.
I think I got most of the essentials in, anyway.
Re: coexisting v. AU. I actually kind of meant both? Because since we do have the Hesper and the Lone Power coexisting, the implication I am drawing is that somewhere alongside there is a Winged Defender that Fell. And every other Power, too.
Okay, I honestly don't think it does imply that, actually. It might be a possibility in some... related sheaf of universes or subcreation, but I don't think the one requires the other -- because I think the Unfallen has in some sense always existed -- and I think the weight of evidence is against. I think the Lone Power would not be as... exceptional as a cause of trouble... if fallen versions of the rest of them were active too. But I'm not going to mess with how you want to read. *g*
Re: Hesper before the Fall... I don't know, that way feels kind of like the easy way out. I mean, the story I care about *is* the fall and redemption. That's what I'm here for. Having the Hesper feels a little like a cop-out. I trust Diane, so I'm going to stick with the series, but ehhhhh. *handwaves*
I don't see it as a cop-out myself; it's not as if the fall and redemption, the redeemed and the unredeemed fallen, aren't still running around. But there always was a "before." Aphrodite is a possibility, though my Classical Mythology teacher told us that "beauty" in her case is really more of an attribute-turned-euphemism; even pre-fall or post-redemption, I don't see the LP being that involved in fertility. Still, probably an aspect. Baldur is also a likely candidate -- actually I got to ask DD one time if "that part of myself I murdered, willingly" would coordinate with the Loki and Baldur story.
Don't get me wrong, though, I'd enjoy seeing more of the Redeemed Lone Power. That version showed up a lot in my fic when I was writing it more often, too.
*hands* I did not mean necessarily active, simply existing. In War, after all, the Hesper had been around for a while and just hadn't tried incarnating yet. One could posit a similar sort of thing with the Fallen versions of the other Powers, if one so chooses to read that way.
It doesn't *have* to be a cop-out? But when the Hesper shows up in the same book with the evilest Lone Power we have met yet, and Esemeli just *one* book ago was being sufficiently ambivalent that Nita reasonably could think It had done the right thing... I just would have been happier if somebody had referenced Esemeli as clear proof that Hesper or no Hesper, the Reconfiguration was clearly taking, even inside Time. Because it would be easy to let the Hesper be the redeemed Lone Power, and that isn't the story I'm here for.
There's potential. Certainly there's AU potential, at the very least. But I think that as presented, the unfallen state is intrinsic to the LP's story -- having fallen from rather than starting out as an enemy -- in a way that a fallen state is not intrinsic to the stories of the other Powers.
I don't think the Hesper is the RLP, or at least, she's not all of it. For one thing I'm fairly sure the cats' Sa'rráhh is at least partly RLP -- Mistress of the Tenth Life, indeed! (Uh. Have you read the cat books? That's not really a spoiler, but the next thing I say would be.) To me, saying she's the Unfallen explicitly distinguishes her from the Redeemed, even though they are parts of the same person. Perhaps that's not quite what DD intended, I don't know.
I do tend to think that to some degree Reconfiguration cleared the way for an unfallen aspect to show up without eventually falling, if that makes any sense. *g*
Oh. The Loki/Baldur thing. I think she said "Could be" or something like that. :P Something positive in a noncommital way, or vice versa. I don't remember the exact phrasing of my own question, either.
I have read the cat books, and adore them, and am fascinated by sa'Rraah (Mistress of the Tenth Life, *indeed*). She's a much more ambiguous presentation of the Lone Power than the version most species get, certainly.
I can see it? Certainly the Reconfiguration would make it a trifle less dangerous for the Hesper to show up.
Well, the cats do also have the Old Serpent. And humanity has some more ambiguous ones. Loki would be one of them, actually. He's even got some of the teaching-humanity-useful-stuff side of things that's largely associated with the Athena/Prometheus side of things.
Actually, I confess that one of the reasons I like Loki-as-LP is that it means he gave birth to his horse. He's riding Sleipnir, or something very similar, in SYW.
They do also have the Old Serpent, but the real enemy is the *rats*. Which is kind of weird: not one, but two Lone Powers, and the enemy is still the rats.
I would actually love to see a YW story which focused on Norse mythology. Or. Oooooh. Japanese mythology! Only I do not think Amaterasu would be the Winged Defender.
Yes! I noticed that. And did kind of giggle.
I wonder, what Power would a trickster figure like Coyote be? Coyote isn't malicious enough to work with most depictions of the Lone One; even Loki as teacher was still Loki Lie-Smith who was working towards Ragnarok.
I think I got most of the essentials in, anyway.
Re: coexisting v. AU. I actually kind of meant both? Because since we do have the Hesper and the Lone Power coexisting, the implication I am drawing is that somewhere alongside there is a Winged Defender that Fell. And every other Power, too.
Okay, I honestly don't think it does imply that, actually. It might be a possibility in some... related sheaf of universes or subcreation, but I don't think the one requires the other -- because I think the Unfallen has in some sense always existed -- and I think the weight of evidence is against. I think the Lone Power would not be as... exceptional as a cause of trouble... if fallen versions of the rest of them were active too. But I'm not going to mess with how you want to read. *g*
Re: Hesper before the Fall... I don't know, that way feels kind of like the easy way out. I mean, the story I care about *is* the fall and redemption. That's what I'm here for. Having the Hesper feels a little like a cop-out. I trust Diane, so I'm going to stick with the series, but ehhhhh. *handwaves*
I don't see it as a cop-out myself; it's not as if the fall and redemption, the redeemed and the unredeemed fallen, aren't still running around. But there always was a "before." Aphrodite is a possibility, though my Classical Mythology teacher told us that "beauty" in her case is really more of an attribute-turned-euphemism; even pre-fall or post-redemption, I don't see the LP being that involved in fertility. Still, probably an aspect. Baldur is also a likely candidate -- actually I got to ask DD one time if "that part of myself I murdered, willingly" would coordinate with the Loki and Baldur story.
Don't get me wrong, though, I'd enjoy seeing more of the Redeemed Lone Power. That version showed up a lot in my fic when I was writing it more often, too.
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It doesn't *have* to be a cop-out? But when the Hesper shows up in the same book with the evilest Lone Power we have met yet, and Esemeli just *one* book ago was being sufficiently ambivalent that Nita reasonably could think It had done the right thing... I just would have been happier if somebody had referenced Esemeli as clear proof that Hesper or no Hesper, the Reconfiguration was clearly taking, even inside Time. Because it would be easy to let the Hesper be the redeemed Lone Power, and that isn't the story I'm here for.
Oooooh. What did she say, re: Loki/Baldur?
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I don't think the Hesper is the RLP, or at least, she's not all of it. For one thing I'm fairly sure the cats' Sa'rráhh is at least partly RLP -- Mistress of the Tenth Life, indeed! (Uh. Have you read the cat books? That's not really a spoiler, but the next thing I say would be.) To me, saying she's the Unfallen explicitly distinguishes her from the Redeemed, even though they are parts of the same person. Perhaps that's not quite what DD intended, I don't know.
I do tend to think that to some degree Reconfiguration cleared the way for an unfallen aspect to show up without eventually falling, if that makes any sense. *g*
Oh. The Loki/Baldur thing. I think she said "Could be" or something like that. :P Something positive in a noncommital way, or vice versa. I don't remember the exact phrasing of my own question, either.
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I have read the cat books, and adore them, and am fascinated by sa'Rraah (Mistress of the Tenth Life, *indeed*). She's a much more ambiguous presentation of the Lone Power than the version most species get, certainly.
I can see it? Certainly the Reconfiguration would make it a trifle less dangerous for the Hesper to show up.
*nods* Makes sense.
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Actually, I confess that one of the reasons I like Loki-as-LP is that it means he gave birth to his horse. He's riding Sleipnir, or something very similar, in SYW.
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I would actually love to see a YW story which focused on Norse mythology. Or. Oooooh. Japanese mythology! Only I do not think Amaterasu would be the Winged Defender.
Yes! I noticed that. And did kind of giggle.
I wonder, what Power would a trickster figure like Coyote be? Coyote isn't malicious enough to work with most depictions of the Lone One; even Loki as teacher was still Loki Lie-Smith who was working towards Ragnarok.
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