Today, I have been
debating the matter of illegal immigrants, and what we should do to fix the issues. As an interesting segue on race, and the blowback effects of race in our society today, I've been sucked into
an argument about one LJer's Native-American ancestors:
heptarchThe issue is not the color of a person's skin, but the legality of a person's presence.
bellvampressYou're absolutely right. Feel free to go back to whatever European country your ancestors came from at any time.
heptarch1. You're assuming my ancestors all came from Europe. Strike one.
2. If you're talking about the matter of Natives being here before other people came here, I answer with a resounding and confounding: so what??? The Euros came, they conquered. Before the Euros came, the natives were busy conquering each other all up and down the continent. This is a straw-man argument, or it's no argument at all. Strike two.
The point is: the nation currently residing here is the USA. Its government sets the rules. The people within it thankfully get to participate in how its government works. And those people have a diverse ancestry from all over the world. Technology, exploration and the intermingling of people has made for... the intermingling of people! :D It's a global world today, Bella... we'll all be better off, if we get with the times.
Maybe in 500 years from now, the USA won't be here. Someone else will be. It doesn't matter. What matters is who is here, who is in charge, here and now.
bellvampressYou know what? I'm not going to bother answering this. I am Native, and I want to thank you for being extremely ignorant. Glad that you can look the other way on the genocide of my race.
As for your first point, you have the typical attitude of a white male, and therefore I assumed as much. Same point, just strike the continent.
heptarchDepending upon whom you ask, your ancestors migrated from somewhere else by walking, riding or by sea. (Unless, of course, you believe human beings of all different sorts spontaneously sprung up all over, in different parts of the world) They fought wars. They conquered each other. Some tribes assimilated others into themselves. And others... well, they completely wiped other tribes out. Committed genocide, and other horrors. That is the way of things. The natural order. Human nature. It has been so for as long as we have had cultures and separate languages to differentiate one group of Humans from another. It's not pretty, but we ARE trying to rise above it. But we aren't going to do so, until everyone stops the blame games and the pity-parties, and instead starts cooperating!
These are the facts. Don't dwell in the past, to the point that you are going to ruin the present, and poison the future!
If you want to talk about deprivations, we can talk about the much more recent deprivations to my Japanese-American ancestors. Let's compare notes. With the hatred you are spouting at me, it doesn't matter that this pretty much happened a hundred to four hundred years ago.... that it was OTHER white people doing it to OTHER natives. I never did a thing to you. Know what? Yours is the racist viewpoint. Think on that.
When will it stop? When will you simply choose to move forward? Most Asian-Americans (including those who actually suffered, directly -- do YOU have anyone still around who was given a smallpox-infested blanket?) already have moved on, I'm proud to say. How many Asian-Americans do you hear whining about all of this incessantly? Blaming every last little failing and circumstance of their lives, on an entirely different culture? Their rhetoric is hard work. Success. In fact, they succeed, and integrate into the society which they exist within, without losing their identity. Isn't that amazing? Which is why they have gained the disfavor of the Liberals. Now, even Affirmative Action discriminates against them for college admissions. Treats them like whites, instead of the minority they are. How funny and screwed up is that?
You know what? I'm not going to bother answering this.
You already did. And only with insults. At least I can respond to you with some sort of reasoned-out argument.
Maybe you're actually "ignorant" enough to think that calling someone white (or white-like) is an insult. What does skin color have to do with any of this? What SHOULD it have to do with any of this, today, and from now on in the new world we should be trying to build together?
Move on, Bellvampress. Move on.
bellvampressFortunately, I don't ask those people. I choose instead to listen to the traditional stories. :)
So you're comparing internment camps and racism of that nature to ongoing genocide? To having 95% of your race killed? To the policy "kill the savage save the man"? Might I ask you which Asian country currently has a European force governing it?
I'm not saying that the things done to Asian Americans weren't horrible. However, these are two entirely different circumstances between two different minority groups- simply put, there is no comparison.
Not an insult. A fact. White males act and talk a certain way due to both their white and male privileges.
heptarchSeems obvious that this argument isn't going to go anywhere productive from here on out. You're too stuck in this hateful dogma to be able to meet me anywhere in the middle. Until you can learn how to shake hands with a white man, instead of instantly hating him for what he was born as, BEFORE you ever talk to him, you're going to stay stuck. Your anger is insanity. Its power deludes you into thinking there is some weighty value in it.
Living in hatred isn't going to benefit your ancestors who were conquered. And it's certainly not going to help your children.
If you want to know why you're a conquered people, you can look right there-- you aren't taking the initiative, to do something which will bring any real benefit. And I'm not bringing any balloons to your pity-party. Sorry.
Best wishes. Buh-bye.