Some thoughts and questions about why we like what we like. Oh, and Kirk.

[my_daroga]

I have things I should probably talk about, that might be interesting, but I keep falling into that cycle of "I'm too tired/busy/braindead to do it justice right now" which is what leads to not posting for months (and it also why I fail at emailing/calling/socializing back

Comments

[rahirah]

Huh. I never felt that Kirk-the-character-in-his-own-milieu was in any way ridiculous, though if you stand outside the story and critique it from a modern perspective, of course there are ridiculous elements to it. But I don't think that those elements are unique to Kirk or even to TOS; I think they're inherent in any TV series of time. (And I'm sure that thirty or forty years from now, people will look back and analyze today's media and see the characters and stories in ridiculous lights that we can't imagine.) You're correct, they don't write heroes like that these days, but once upon a time that conflation of larger-than-life bravura and implacable sensaduty was a fairly popular heroic trope. That's it's withered away in the intervening years is something I'm not sure to be pleased or saddened by. It incorporates a lot of poisonous societal dichotomies, IMO, but on the other hand, much though I enjoyed the reboot movie, the Kirk in that story is just... not Kirk to me. He's an interesting character in his own right, but he

[my_daroga]

See, I agree with you. I think that within the world of TOS, Kirk's behavior and Shatner's acting is on the whole totally appropriate. He's a little "big" sometimes but it totally works for me, considering who he is. The weirdness, for me, comes from having heard something different from popular culture (along with the brawn bit and the womanizing bit--the show has problems of gender, but statistically they're not about Kirk chasing girls) and learning I actually really love the guy.

That's it's withered away in the intervening years is something I'm not sure to be pleased or saddened by. It incorporates a lot of poisonous societal dichotomies, IMO...This. It's not easy to parse. I think one thing that attracts me so strongly to TOS now is its optimism, and the fact a bunch of guys who had been through war decided that this was the story they wanted to tell. That it's imperialist and quasi-military and falls down hard on gender are issues. But there's a spirit there that I respond to, I think because I lack it in other (more cynical

[feanna]

"he felt more like a pretty good summation of everything I feel pop culture has decided Kirk is

[my_daroga]

It's not all spelled out and therefore reclaimable, but his scenes with Uhura and Gaila and some others do create a very different picture as a whole.It really does--I feel the character, as a whole, could become something I can get behind. But he's not, yet, which is where good fic comes in! (And by "good" I, in my biased way, means "fic which posits that this really is the same guy as in TOS, under different circumstances.") But because it's in line with the popular opinion of Kirk, I am skeptical that that's what's meant to come through. I feel it's more likely that this *is* how they see TOS Kirk, and how they think the public wants to see him

[feanna]

"I feel it's more likely that this *is* how they see TOS Kirk, and how they think the public wants to see him

[my_daroga]

They seem to be very proud of themselves for the little shoutouts to TOS and yes guys, those things are fun, but having Sulu swing around a sword doesn't mean you've captured the spirit of Trek.

Yes, totally. I felt the same about the Holmes movie, frankly: proof that you're familiar with canon =/= truthfulness to canon. (It doesn't NOT equal it, either, of course.) It's all fine and fun and everything, and I don't hate the movie, but I don't think the sword/tribble/dropped lines have much to do with what makes TOS TOS.

I'd have to know more about the history of heroic archetypes to be sure--I don't know how much cycle there is through that. Though maybe, yeah, we'll get tired of the current one!

Like how they blew up Vulcan? I'm totally reserving judgement on that. They could do awesome things with portraying the consequenses, but if they did it JUST to change things around a bit so they'd be able to tell the story their way, I'll not like them for that.And then saving Earth. If you blow up Vulcan/save Earth in the first film...