Which episodes? The last two have been quite good, but the two before that were ugh.
S1 is much stronger than S2 (so far). There are a couple of writers who drive me batty with their portrayal of the female characters - which was present in S1, but seemed...less, if that makes sense.
The thing about S1 is that it firmly establishes Harvey as a competent, emotionally-unavailable jackass and shows Mike as a brilliant unaware-jackass with terrible taste in friends and who reveres Harvey as the One True God. And it was really ridiculously slashy. Like, they had multiple long conversations about how and to what extent Harvey cares about Mike. Still kills me.
It's interesting to watch the show they're actually making while knowing what show they think they're making, where Mike is actually a good guy, with heart and stuff, and not a product of his own shitty life choices.
Otoh, Harvey does lecture him about his shitty life choices a lot. And has to step in and save him from himself a few times. In that way, S1 kind of built up an understanding of Mike. Watching S2, where he has it together like he does, without that background...yeah, I can understand your reaction.
But then again, I jumped up and down about what a hypocritical idiot he was being about Rachel this season, so understanding him may not make S2 any better.
Preeminent in my mind: S1 was funny. SO funny. God, I miss my funny show.
The first two - three now - of s2. I liked them, but you know, I loved L.A. Law back in its heyday, and I love The Good Wife, so I'm amenable to enjoying legal dramas that are mostly office politics and legal shenanigans whether or not they go to court. I feel like Mike is everything not enjoyable about the show. So I'm not sure watching the season where he is preeminent because it's about him instead of about Jessica and Harvey's power struggles with the other guy is going to make me like him or enjoy the show more. I mean, maybe I will go back and watch it, but the fact that it focuses more closely on Mike and his poor life choices is not an enticement.
I jumped up and down about what a hypocritical idiot he was being about Rachel this season, so understanding him may not make S2 any better.
Heh. That is why I wanted to punch him in the face!
It's interesting to watch the show they're actually making while knowing what show they think they're making, where Mike is actually a good guy, with heart and stuff, and not a product of his own shitty life choices.
Yeah, I find it ridiculous that the show wants me to root for him to have all the benefits of life as a high powered lawyer without having to pay any of the consequences of the lies that got him there in the first place; that kind of disconnect is what makes me dislike him, I think.
I feel like Mike is everything not enjoyable about the show. So I'm not sure watching the season where he is preeminent because it's about him instead of about Jessica and Harvey's power struggles with the other guy is going to make me like him or enjoy the show more.
I hear that. At least for me, I enjoyed the Harvey-Mike dynamic in season 1. They're fun to watch together, even as Mike on his own can be very trying. But I have noticed how much this season is inextricably linked to last season - little moments, especially, that land so much harder if you have the foundation - so there's a layer that you might be missing. But then, that might not matter.
It may also be that you want to watch a show that they're just not making. For better or worse, the set-up is Harvey and Mike vs the world. It's nice when they let Jessica be awesome (if really stupidly antagonistic toward Hardman in a way that's beneath her, given her badassery in S1...but whatever) and I wish it would be like that all the time, but she's not the focus.
God knows *I* want to watch the Jessica and Harvey Show...or the Jessica Wins Everything Show...but that's sadly not the show they're making. And there's no real way around that.
I find it ridiculous that the show wants me to root for him to have all the benefits of life as a high powered lawyer without having to pay any of the consequences of the lies that got him there in the first place; that kind of disconnect is what makes me dislike him, I think.
I agree and that's where Mike is at his worst in my view, too. He has no wisdom, at least with respect to his own position in the world, and that can be very trying, indeed.
It may also be that you want to watch a show that they're just not making. For better or worse, the set-up is Harvey and Mike vs the world. It's nice when they let Jessica be awesome (if really stupidly antagonistic toward Hardman in a way that's beneath her, given her badassery in S1...but whatever) and I wish it would be like that all the time, but she's not the focus.
That is pretty much true, though I think by not being that emotionally invested in it, I can still enjoy it without being angry that it's not the show I wish it was? If that makes sense?
Like, I'm still annoyed that suddenly Fringe became about Peter Bishop's Special Destiny when for 3 seasons it was about Olivia Dunham: Superhero, which makes it harder for me to want to watch next season. But here I'm just sort of enjoying it and checking my email when Mike's on the screen for too long.
I think by not being that emotionally invested in it, I can still enjoy it without being angry that it's not the show I wish it was? If that makes sense?
Makes total sense. And hey, at least then you get to enjoy Jessica's awesome. Because she is pretty fabulous.
you all are making me want to go back and rewatch season 1 (which had a shitty pilot but generally was fun times). But, I feel like..."it was a simpler time" when Mike was the screw up and Harvey really was the "One True God." At least to Mike. But I do appreciate the fact Mike can often get his head out of his ass long enough to help Harvey out these days. It's just weird that Harvey needs *so* much help (like, dude, what the hell happened to you? Why so cray-cray lately?)
See, I judge the Suits pilot against other USA pilots and White Collar's was stellar. However, if the Suits pilot was lacking I definitely think the show as a whole became much better, where as White Collar has never been quite as good since.
In spite of the dumb things Harvey and Jessica are doing I'm always astonished at the little character beats that are now just paying off in season 2 (for example, Harvey's dislike of adultery, mentioned in season 1 and now revealed to be rooted in very personal experience in season 2). So. I'm very conflicted about this season.
S1 is much stronger than S2 (so far). There are a couple of writers who drive me batty with their portrayal of the female characters - which was present in S1, but seemed...less, if that makes sense.
The thing about S1 is that it firmly establishes Harvey as a competent, emotionally-unavailable jackass and shows Mike as a brilliant unaware-jackass with terrible taste in friends and who reveres Harvey as the One True God. And it was really ridiculously slashy. Like, they had multiple long conversations about how and to what extent Harvey cares about Mike. Still kills me.
It's interesting to watch the show they're actually making while knowing what show they think they're making, where Mike is actually a good guy, with heart and stuff, and not a product of his own shitty life choices.
Otoh, Harvey does lecture him about his shitty life choices a lot. And has to step in and save him from himself a few times. In that way, S1 kind of built up an understanding of Mike. Watching S2, where he has it together like he does, without that background...yeah, I can understand your reaction.
But then again, I jumped up and down about what a hypocritical idiot he was being about Rachel this season, so understanding him may not make S2 any better.
Preeminent in my mind: S1 was funny. SO funny. God, I miss my funny show.
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I jumped up and down about what a hypocritical idiot he was being about Rachel this season, so understanding him may not make S2 any better.
Heh. That is why I wanted to punch him in the face!
It's interesting to watch the show they're actually making while knowing what show they think they're making, where Mike is actually a good guy, with heart and stuff, and not a product of his own shitty life choices.
Yeah, I find it ridiculous that the show wants me to root for him to have all the benefits of life as a high powered lawyer without having to pay any of the consequences of the lies that got him there in the first place; that kind of disconnect is what makes me dislike him, I think.
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I hear that. At least for me, I enjoyed the Harvey-Mike dynamic in season 1. They're fun to watch together, even as Mike on his own can be very trying. But I have noticed how much this season is inextricably linked to last season - little moments, especially, that land so much harder if you have the foundation - so there's a layer that you might be missing. But then, that might not matter.
It may also be that you want to watch a show that they're just not making. For better or worse, the set-up is Harvey and Mike vs the world. It's nice when they let Jessica be awesome (if really stupidly antagonistic toward Hardman in a way that's beneath her, given her badassery in S1...but whatever) and I wish it would be like that all the time, but she's not the focus.
God knows *I* want to watch the Jessica and Harvey Show...or the Jessica Wins Everything Show...but that's sadly not the show they're making. And there's no real way around that.
I find it ridiculous that the show wants me to root for him to have all the benefits of life as a high powered lawyer without having to pay any of the consequences of the lies that got him there in the first place; that kind of disconnect is what makes me dislike him, I think.
I agree and that's where Mike is at his worst in my view, too. He has no wisdom, at least with respect to his own position in the world, and that can be very trying, indeed.
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That is pretty much true, though I think by not being that emotionally invested in it, I can still enjoy it without being angry that it's not the show I wish it was? If that makes sense?
Like, I'm still annoyed that suddenly Fringe became about Peter Bishop's Special Destiny when for 3 seasons it was about Olivia Dunham: Superhero, which makes it harder for me to want to watch next season. But here I'm just sort of enjoying it and checking my email when Mike's on the screen for too long.
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Makes total sense. And hey, at least then you get to enjoy Jessica's awesome. Because she is pretty fabulous.
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And okay, I admit, Harvey and Donna hit my bulletproof kinks for the brilliant narcissist boss and the long-suffering but kickass assistant.
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It's just weird that Harvey needs *so* much help (like, dude, what the hell happened to you? Why so cray-cray lately?)
He and Jessica are being dumbasses in a way that makes. no. sense. Their S1 selves would kick their asses for being such idiots. I mean, seriously.
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In spite of the dumb things Harvey and Jessica are doing I'm always astonished at the little character beats that are now just paying off in season 2 (for example, Harvey's dislike of adultery, mentioned in season 1 and now revealed to be rooted in very personal experience in season 2). So. I'm very conflicted about this season.
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Heh. This is sadly all too true. So what does USA do? They double down and give Eastin another show. ::shakes head::
I'm always astonished at the little character beats that are now just paying off in season 2
Yes, I agree. They're even including lovely little moments that call back to S1 and wouldn't be meaningful otherwise.
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