Sam came back the same Sam he's always been, but because of Dean's actions, he's changing/hardening in order to save Dean
That's very interesting! By which I mean, I like that idea more than the one I've been assuming which is that he really did come back different somehow. Just the way he took down Jake seemed so cold, yet that would be explainable as, well, Jake did kill him after all I suppose. Hmmm... I like the idea that Dean's deal - the reason he's alive - is ultimately the reason he "came back wrong" as opposed to him literally having some inner change that is now manifesting itself through his love for Dean as his willingness to do anything to save him.
It certainly fits the idea of Gordon - that because he believed he had no choice, he could become a monster - while we the viewers know he actually did have a choice. Sam may believe that he did come back different, wrong - and that allows him to act in ways he wouldn't have countenanced before. Yet again, it's still his choice, part of who he is, just released by his belief that he isn't as much in control of his darkness/this darkness isn't actually him.
OTOH, they've hit the button - did he come back wrong - so many times that I kind of do believe they are going somewhere with that. SPN isn't usually one of those shows that has a season long red herring.
or they were before the strike intervened
Ugh, don't remind me. I support the concept of the strike, I just kind of wish that it didn't impact the shows I love. Selfish I know, but there you go.
Yeah, I think the plan is for Cain and Abel Sam&Dean style. I just kind of have been hoping that's the arc until mid-season (say, ep 11) and it will be them against the world again after that. Or, if they do make that the season ending cliffhanger, that the show isn't canceled...
I like that idea more than the one I've been assuming which is that he really did come back different somehow
See, and I've NEVER thought that. I've thought that Dean thinks it (and really doesn't want to), after watching him shoot Jake and then Casey and the Demon Priest and the CRD, but I think it's simply Sam's choices that are going to lead him down the primrose path, and not anything inherently evil inside him - this is what he's never understood - Ava and Jake had to CHOOSE to flip those switches. Yeah, the YED pushed them to it, but Sam was going to walk out of Cold Oak still himself and still not-evil (except for that pesky leaving the weapons and turning his back thing), and that was his CHOICE.
Sam will, I'm sure, play the "I'm becoming what the demon made me!" card or something, because he keeps thinking some outside force can make him turn evil rather than his own choices (in service of saving Dean, of course) which lead him over the line. Because Sam's besetting sin is pride, and he believes he knows best, and he is confident in his own ability to do the right thing, so of course it MUST be an outside force acting on him.
Or I'm talking about my hat. But if *I* were writing the arc, that's what I would do. Because otherwise it takes Sam's agency away, and where's the interesting stories in that? "I'm evil because a demon bled on me when I was a baby" is kind of lame. And "I'm destined to be evil because I can move things with my mind" is no better, imo.
just kind of have been hoping that's the arc until mid-season (say, ep 11) and it will be them against the world again after that.
Well, I think last night was baby steps back towards them against the world, a rapprochement that will be shattered when Dean finds out that Sam's been keeping all this stuff about Mary and Ruby from him, and of course, that Sam is still actively trying to get him out of the deal.
if they do make that the season ending cliffhanger, that the show isn't canceled...
Well, if the strike goes a couple of months, it's unlikely that there will be any new shows available for fall 2008, so when the strike ends (and the SAG and DGA can negotiate acceptable contracts so they're not on strike as well), I think returning shows have a better shot at, well, returning, especially on the CW, where they will be scrambling for programming.
That's very interesting! By which I mean, I like that idea more than the one I've been assuming which is that he really did come back different somehow. Just the way he took down Jake seemed so cold, yet that would be explainable as, well, Jake did kill him after all I suppose. Hmmm... I like the idea that Dean's deal - the reason he's alive - is ultimately the reason he "came back wrong" as opposed to him literally having some inner change that is now manifesting itself through his love for Dean as his willingness to do anything to save him.
It certainly fits the idea of Gordon - that because he believed he had no choice, he could become a monster - while we the viewers know he actually did have a choice. Sam may believe that he did come back different, wrong - and that allows him to act in ways he wouldn't have countenanced before. Yet again, it's still his choice, part of who he is, just released by his belief that he isn't as much in control of his darkness/this darkness isn't actually him.
OTOH, they've hit the button - did he come back wrong - so many times that I kind of do believe they are going somewhere with that. SPN isn't usually one of those shows that has a season long red herring.
or they were before the strike intervened
Ugh, don't remind me. I support the concept of the strike, I just kind of wish that it didn't impact the shows I love. Selfish I know, but there you go.
Yeah, I think the plan is for Cain and Abel Sam&Dean style. I just kind of have been hoping that's the arc until mid-season (say, ep 11) and it will be them against the world again after that. Or, if they do make that the season ending cliffhanger, that the show isn't canceled...
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See, and I've NEVER thought that. I've thought that Dean thinks it (and really doesn't want to), after watching him shoot Jake and then Casey and the Demon Priest and the CRD, but I think it's simply Sam's choices that are going to lead him down the primrose path, and not anything inherently evil inside him - this is what he's never understood - Ava and Jake had to CHOOSE to flip those switches. Yeah, the YED pushed them to it, but Sam was going to walk out of Cold Oak still himself and still not-evil (except for that pesky leaving the weapons and turning his back thing), and that was his CHOICE.
Sam will, I'm sure, play the "I'm becoming what the demon made me!" card or something, because he keeps thinking some outside force can make him turn evil rather than his own choices (in service of saving Dean, of course) which lead him over the line. Because Sam's besetting sin is pride, and he believes he knows best, and he is confident in his own ability to do the right thing, so of course it MUST be an outside force acting on him.
Or I'm talking about my hat. But if *I* were writing the arc, that's what I would do. Because otherwise it takes Sam's agency away, and where's the interesting stories in that? "I'm evil because a demon bled on me when I was a baby" is kind of lame. And "I'm destined to be evil because I can move things with my mind" is no better, imo.
just kind of have been hoping that's the arc until mid-season (say, ep 11) and it will be them against the world again after that.
Well, I think last night was baby steps back towards them against the world, a rapprochement that will be shattered when Dean finds out that Sam's been keeping all this stuff about Mary and Ruby from him, and of course, that Sam is still actively trying to get him out of the deal.
if they do make that the season ending cliffhanger, that the show isn't canceled...
Well, if the strike goes a couple of months, it's unlikely that there will be any new shows available for fall 2008, so when the strike ends (and the SAG and DGA can negotiate acceptable contracts so they're not on strike as well), I think returning shows have a better shot at, well, returning, especially on the CW, where they will be scrambling for programming.
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