[poly] perilous poly moments

[much_ado]

i have historically taken a very hands-off approach to a primary partner's other relationships (casual or otherwise). i expect to know they exist, i expect to be notified about date scheduling, i expect to remain the primary priority and be respected as such (by both my partner and his lovers); other than that, i generally don't want to know

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[much_ado]

c) I crushed *hard* on this person for years. In and around this we had a relationship.

and this may be the chiefest difference in the scenarios; matthew doesn't have an emotionally-invested relationship with this girl. sex, yes; but "relationship", per se, is at the "hey, i know you socially, we do stuff in common, we know some of the same people" kind of interaction, not the "let's build a capital-R Relationship" level. and honestly, if matthew's *NOT* going to develop that kind of relationship with her, than i'm significantly less concerned in how *she* might want the interactions to proceed, and far more concerned about how matthew is going to manage keeping her expectations down at the level of what he's offering, instead of at the level of what she may be wanting (taking into account i'm reading a lot into a single five-day span of interaction, and not much else).

yes, she may learn. i'd like to be pleasantly surprised, given how things have started. but honestly? i'd really like someone ELSE to be her native Sherpa rather than matthew. there's enough drain on our respective individual and relational resources these days between his work and my schooling and our existing relationships that adding a novice into the mix is just far more *risk* than i'm comfortable taking on. she's welcome to go learn somewhere else and come back in a few years, IMO, or she's welcome to get on board with what little there is to offer here. either one works for me... but i'm not expecting the adjustment from what her body language was asking for and assuming this past weekend to a more realistic understanding of what's going on, to be pretty. i'd like to be surprised. i don't dare expect it, though.

[zingerella]

Well, initially the object of my crushification and I did not have a capital-R relationship; we knew each other socially, we did stuff in common, and every so often he invited me home with him. In and around that stage of our interaction, I made googly-eyes and was generally young and crushin', and, if I could see myself now, I'd likely be deeply embarrassed.

Because he was entirely clear with me on the scope of the possible (or lack thereof) with respect to our interaction, I went off and married someone else, and, eventually he and I resumed a friendship.

Anyway, my relationship history is neither here nor there, except by way of shedding some light on why I tend to allow for the callow. Of course, it's easy for me to allow for callow right now, as there's no crushing newbie making goo-goo eyes at any of my sweeties (that I know of). My point is simply that sometimes, given the right level of gentle-yet-ruthless honesty, people can learn to manage their own crushes, and not be a nuisance to those with whom they are involved. Of course, one doesn't know, ahead of time, which people will say "Hmmm ... my crush, my feelings, my responsibility, and I see no reason to let inconvenient twitterpation govern what might otherwise be an entirely satisfactory interaction," and which will say "But I waaaaaannttt!"

And, well, expecting to be surprised is never really a sensible plan. I just like to allow a little bit of room for it.

[lightcastle]

Of course, one doesn't know, ahead of time, which people will say "Hmmm ... my crush, my feelings, my responsibility, and I see no reason to let inconvenient twitterpation govern what might otherwise be an entirely satisfactory interaction," and which will say "But I waaaaaannttt!"

No, one really doesn't know. And youth or newbieness isn't even that great a predictor in my experience.

[much_ado]

initially the object of my crushification and I did not have a capital-R relationship; we knew each other socially, we did stuff in common, and every so often he invited me home with him. In and around that stage of our interaction, I made googly-eyes and was generally young and crushin' [...] Because he was entirely clear with me on the scope of the possible (or lack thereof) with respect to our interaction

and, to be fair, that's exactly what i think is the current situation here (though knowing matthew, he's more likely to be gentle in his honesty than brutal, which means using praseology and language that softens the hard limits and, frankly, leaves room for interpretation in the mind of someone who may be looking for any opening that *might even look like* it will lead to more). that's something matthew and i have worked on before, work on now, and will certainly have to work on in future, i trust his actions will be consistent with the limitations he and i define between us, but i don't always trust him to use the best language1 for the situation with other people. being clear with someone who is crushing takes some different language finesse than dealing with other lovers or potential lovers, so for someone who's unfamiliar with dealing with other people's crushes, i don't feel confident that he'll know what that finessed or most effective language will be. so i'm trying to allow room for trial and error, hence the teeth-gritting.

1 - and as i write that, i think, "and by 'best language', i really mean, "he won't say this as bluntly as *i* would say it", so i have to find a way to get my head around the idea that we really ARE two different people, and trust him to deal with his relationships *his* way, so long as they remain within the boundaries of what we expect. dear ghods, but that's *hard* some days...

[zingerella]

being clear with someone who is crushing takes some different language finesse than dealing with other lovers or potential lovers ....

Agreed, entirely. I tend to refer to this clarity-shading-towards-bluntness as "ruthlessness" rather than "brutality" -ruthlessness being the refusal to let another party's desires or needs compromise one's own stated needs or limits, while "brutality" allows for some outright cruelty or the inflicting of more pain than might be avoided, while still maintaining one's own limits. I am aware that this usage may be non-standard.

Thinking on this last night, I wish to make clear that I don't think your chariness is unwarranted, and that I do understand why you wouldn't want either you or Matthew to be a Sherpa in this newcomer's navigation of unfamiliar territory. I can understand how the situation would start the alarm bells dinging, and lead to teeth-gritting.

[lightcastle]

I like using "ruthless" rather than "brutal".

[lightcastle]

*nod*

Softening the language is something I do (I'm NICE, dammit!) and I think has bitten me in the ass in the past.