TL;DR: I am just way too pissed off about something going on at Eway
So apparently our Ritsuka doesn't like the way I play Ryohei or the things I have him do in-game.
On this entry, Ryohei interrupted a thread between Hibari and Ritsuka. You will notice if you scroll down that Ritsuka did the same thing to Hibari and Poland.
So then I get a PM. Which initiates a string of PMs, as follows. (no_no_badtouch is Ritsuka-mun, kyokugen_sun is me on my Ryohei account.)
no_no_badtouch wrote:
I'm going to ask you very nicely right now to stop thread jacking the conversations between Hibari and Ritsuka. Doing so once is fine, but doing so so that Hibari and Ritsuka can't have a conversation is incredibly rude.
As I said, I'm going to ask very nicely right now but if you continue without asking (and as it stands right now my answer is that it is not alright) I will report your actions to the mods of the game.
kyokugen_sun wrote:
I don't recall ever having thread jacked one of their threads before. Could you direct me to a thread where this has happened before today?
I apologize if this bothers you. However, you have Ritsuka jack threads often, and I doubt that you ask every time you intend to do it. I DO make a point of asking when I jack an action thread, but because this takes place as communication over the network, and the thread was not locked, anyone has access to it. I know this, because I have asked the mods in the past.
no_no_badtouch wrote:
When Ritsuka jacks a thread he does not block communication between the two characters, which is what you were previously doing between Hibari and Ritsuka. Every new comment they were making between one another had a comment from you blocking direct communication. This is both rude and inappropriate.
Since my comment to you it has gotten better but it is inappropriate to thread jack in the way you were doing before.
kyokugen_sun wrote:
Okay, you've lost me. I'm honestly not sure what it is that's wrong. I only jacked one thread. All of Ryohei's subsequent comments have been directly in response to something one or the other of them has said TO HIM. Hibari's response to Ryohei's initial comment (when he said, "Stay out. You're as bad as him.") was directed at Ryohei, not at Ritsuka. In that case, it was Ritsuka who interrupted that thread, not Ryohei.
I apologize if I'm misunderstanding here. If you'd rather IM me, my AIM is MadMadPhineas.
no_no_badtouch wrote:
After reading and re-reading the threads I think I see the issue that I was having. While what I was saying is still true in a general sense, I'm trying to figure out why the jack happened in the first place.
It's probably my fault because while I follow what you've been doing with the character I don't know the cannon for him. Anyway, there's more I'd like to say in general right now but it's not really an appropriate time to be saying it since this was a specific circumstance issue and not a general crit on the character.
I am sorry for jumping on something that seems to not have been entirely the case in this situation though. I may have been overreacting to the fact that once Ryohei became involved the situation escalated to a place that I was neither planning nor wanted it to go.
kyokugen_sun wrote:
Once again, I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding what's going on. Are you referring to this journal entry or to the overall situation with Hibari and Seimei (and by extension Ryohei and Ritsuka)?
If you mean the latter, Ryohei has had very little to do with the situation. He confessed to Hibari that he liked him several weeks ago, but since then had very little to do directly with that situation and the way it progressed. He did hang out with Hibari, but the two of them are friends, and he did not push Hibari in one direction or the other.
If you're referring to Ryohei punching Seimei, I warned Seimei-mun about it beforehand that it would happen if certain things in-game happened, and I asked if it would be okay. If you're worried about whether or not that response is in character, I can show you in his canon a situation in which he does almost the exact same thing.
I'm not sure that any of Ryohei's actions have had to do with Ritsuka directly other than the few times they've talked over the network and the one time they met in person at New Years.
Again, if you'd rather discuss this with me on AIM, feel free to IM me at MadMadPhineas. It might be a little easier for us both to explain ourselves in realtime rather than through this method.
[Note: I got some flak for Ryohei's confession to Hibari and the following circumstances, mainly because Seimei-mun apparently decided that it was personally directed at him rather than related to anything in game. In fact, it was building up over weeks of interactions between Ryohei and Hibari (which I can prove, as I will mention below), and I did in fact warn both Seimei- and Hibari-mun about Ryohei's feelings and that he would confess beforehand.]
no_no_badtouch wrote:
I'm honestly not very good at explaining my thoughts either way. I'm a writer, so I generally read threads and such even if they don't have anything to do with my character or any characters that mine interact with, so I end up looking at a lot of people's writing from a more distant perspective. I wasn't talking about the situation with Hibari and Seimei at all. What I'm talking about is Ryohei's general actions. How he interacts and does things in a general way.
His voice honestly sounds more like a jilted girlfriend or, well, a very female voice in general when he talks to anyone. His voice is very strongly feminine in nature and, while as I said before I don't know the cannon at all I have a friend who's a huge fan of the character and she tells me a lot about the character. From what I've grown to understand from that and the Ryohei's that I've played with in other games he seems to not be that feminine. I can try to read/watch the series and give you a stronger character analysis once I do if you want, but that's the gist of what I was trying to say about him. It honestly has nothing to do with the situation with Hibari except that I'd maybe look into doing less CR with him and more CR outside of cannon. The analysis is from looking at his interactions with other characters, like Helana and such.
I don't know if I'm explaining myself well enough and I'm sorry if I'm not. I can try again if you want. I can also see what I can do about reading the manga, but I might not get very far in it, but still, I can try.
At this point, I IMed a mod and ended up forwarding the PMs to her. Mainly because I didn't know if this would escalate, and if it DID and came to the attention of the mods, I felt it was fair that they be given a heads up early on.
Also, if anyone who read those PMs isn't as confused as I am about them, congratulations. I had no idea what the hell she was talking about half the time, due to how vague and inarticulate she was. And because her story kept changing.
So next, I IMed her about it. To see if we could get this cleared up.
MadMadPhineas: Hey, I just got your most recent PM. I thought it might be easier for us to talk over AIM.
Angstgreeneyes: Maybe. I'm just pretty bad with talking.
MadMadPhineas: That's okay. It just seems a bit easier to be able to talk directly.
MadMadPhineas: I'm honestly having trouble figuring out what it is that you have a problem with. First you were talking about thread jacking, then it had to do with Ryohei's response altering the way your thread went somehow, and now the problem seems to be with my characterization.
MadMadPhineas: I'd like to be able to defend myself a bit, but I'm not sure what it is the issue is.
Angstgreeneyes: Sorry. I just of jumped all over. I apologize. Like I said in the one reply. I'm sorry about the thread jacking comment.
Angstgreeneyes: I also didn't mean to sound as if I were blaming you for things going in a weird way with the threads. I just meant I was cattered with a lot going on.
MadMadPhineas: Ah. I see. So the real complaint is my characterization then?
Angstgreeneyes: Well, I wasn't going to say anything at first and then it more or less ended up being said.
Angstgreeneyes: Mostly because it's been bothering me and confusing me for a while now. Not as Ritsuka's player but in general.
MadMadPhineas: That's alright. If there's an issue I'd like to address it.
MadMadPhineas: Can you give me examples of what it is you're having a problem with?
Angstgreeneyes: Well, is Ryohei supposed to have an extremely feminine voice?
MadMadPhineas: I don't recognize what it is about his voice that you find feminine.
MadMadPhineas: That's why I'd like some examples.
Angstgreeneyes: Sure. Let me pull some up in threads.
MadMadPhineas: Thanks.
Angstgreeneyes: It might take a bit. I'm trying to swap and set up a new computer so I was closing windows.
Angstgreeneyes: And this computer is really slow
MadMadPhineas: Take your time.
MadMadPhineas: I would like to go ahead and say that my Ryohei isn't as loud as he tends to be in the canon. Mainly because it would be hard to get him to interact with anyone if all he did was yell. However, in his canon, he is fairly quiet a lot of the time. It's only when he's excited or upset about something that he tends to become loud.
MadMadPhineas: Just to make clear that I know about my tendency to do this.
Angstgreeneyes: I'm sorry. Helana's pages aren't loading and I have to go through her comments.
MadMadPhineas: It's okay.
MadMadPhineas: I just wanted to get that out of the way, since that's the only complaint my friends who have read the canon really have about my portrayal of Ryohei.
MadMadPhineas: Which isn't to say that I don't consider other comments on his characterization valid. Just that if that was one of your comments, I'm already aware of it.
Angstgreeneyes: One of the cannon things I was told about was the amount of drinking that he does. I've been told a lot that he's not a drinker which, fighter-wise makes sense. He seems to be either turning into an alchaholic with how much there's drinking in posts and comments. The most notable is http://kyokugen-sun.livejournal.com/3874.html and http://kyokugen-sun.livejournal.com/4700.html.
Angstgreeneyes: I understand that drinking does occur, but they were really close together and I've always wondered why he all of a sudden started turning into a lush.
Angstgreeneyes: Because it seems weird for a boxer to be drinking so much.
MadMadPhineas: In his canon, there's at least one occasion (as a teenager) in which he drinks.
Angstgreeneyes: But one occasion doesn't make a continuing thing.
MadMadPhineas: I can find a link to it if you'd like, but he actually doesn't drink that much in the mansion, either.
MadMadPhineas: Usually if/when he drinks, he doesn't drink much, because he IS very health conscious.
MadMadPhineas: In the case where he drank with Hibari, he may have gotten buzzed but he wasn't drunk.
MadMadPhineas: And in the case where he drank with Poland, Poland gave him a much stronger drink than he was used to.
MadMadPhineas: I wouldn't say that those two instances make him a lush.
Angstgreeneyes: Honestly, the way it was handled seemed very much so to the reader.
MadMadPhineas: It seemed that he drank more often or that he was more drunk than I said?
Angstgreeneyes: Both to be honest.
MadMadPhineas: Before his sister appeared, he was a bit depressed at his situation. He's not the sort of person to be depressed though, so he didn't know exactly how to handle it. The fact that he does drink at least some in canon (in a situation where he failed and was disappointed in himself, specifically) indicates to me that he wouldn't be adverse to drinking a bit to take the edge off of negative feelings.
MadMadPhineas: However, he doesn't usually drink to excess when he does drink, and other than those two instances, I've never specifically had him drinking anything alcoholic.
Angstgreeneyes: Honestly, what you said tere is kind of describing a budding alcaholic.
Angstgreeneyes: What I've been told of him as a character is very much a person who doesn't give up and keeps fighting no matter how difficult the circumstances or how hopeless. I haven't seen any attempts to 'fight' his situation. Not even when he first showed up. He hasn't dealt with the more adverse situations and yet he's'taking the edge off' instead of fighting by trying to find a way out even when he's told it's hopeless. That seems very uncharacteristic for any character that has a reason to go home.
Angstgreeneyes: Especially one that is as tenacious as this one is claimed to be.
Angstgreeneyes: Gyoku even tried to fight back, manipulate te system and make things go in a way that would help him go home. Which is someting tat makes the character more realistic and believable. I just can't understand how Ryohei would be so easy to start drinking and obsessing over things that aren't going home when he's supposed to be such a strong personality and person.
MadMadPhineas: For one thing, he didn't just "start drinking". As I said, he only drinks occassionally, and not to excess with one or two exceptions. For another, he hasn't given up. And one of the sources of his frustration is that he can't find a specific THING to fight. He isn't necessarily good at thinking in abstract terms, so he looks for a concrete target to direct his energies at and in the situation of being stuck in Wonderland there ISN'T a concrete target. You could say that the queen is, but he knows that it isn't as easy to get to her as one might think.
MadMadPhineas: And I'm honestly not sure what you mean by "he hasn't dealt with the more adverse situations."
Angstgreeneyes: Just that Wonderland can get a LOT worse.
MadMadPhineas: It can. But he's only been there a few months, and he can only go based on what he's experienced himself while there.
MadMadPhineas: he's the kind of person who learns by experiencing things, not just by being told them.
Angstgreeneyes: I understand that. Which is fine. It's just that you're not showing him doing anything but basically giving up. Which I find odd.
MadMadPhineas: I'm not sure how his actions can be construed as giving up. Do you mean the fact that all of his entries don't consist of "HEY GUYS LET'S FIND A WAY OUT TO THE EXTREME"?
Angstgreeneyes: Also, if he learns by actions then why hasn't he actually tried to leave. He just sort of hunkered down and went 'meh, guess I'm living here' in actions. That seems odd.
MadMadPhineas: He came from a bad point in his canon, and being aware that time doesn't pass at home while he's there, he's not actually in much of a hurry. Most of his friends are (or were) in Wonderland, so it felt as much like home as where he came from.
Angstgreeneyes: It's not voice, it's actions. I haven't seen him do anything except worry about what goes in in the mansion. I was extremely confused when his sister showed up and I didn't see him really make any sort of announcelment that who is supposed to be the most important person in his world had showed it. It seemed to pass as if it was nothing
Angstgreeneyes: So you're saying that because his situation was bad he just gave up and decided to make house?
MadMadPhineas: No, I'm not saying that. And he has, on several occasions, declared to people that he wants to go home.
MadMadPhineas: Also, why does everything that happens to a character need to be put on the network?
MadMadPhineas: His sister arrived, and he was so happy about it that he probably got distracted and didn't think to make an announcement.
MadMadPhineas: Because he was too busy actually spending time with her.
MadMadPhineas: He has kind of a short attention span.
Angstgreeneyes: That's where logs come into play.
Angstgreeneyes: Where are the logs that show that he was spending time with her? Otherwise you're saying it and I can't really agree because there's nothing for me to see
Angstgreeneyes: As a reader.
MadMadPhineas: He did log with Kyoko immediately after she arrived. And I can only do logs if the other player is willing to.
MadMadPhineas: Kyoko's mun and I tend to like to assume certain things about our character interactions. We know that Ryohei and Kyoko spend time together.
MadMadPhineas: Unfortunately, I'm playing this game for my own satisfaction, not for an audience.
MadMadPhineas: Well, not unfortunately for me.
MadMadPhineas: But for people who prefer to have documentation of as many interactions as possible.
Angstgreeneyes: Then that is a problem you have to deal with with the other party.
Angstgreeneyes: Then you need to show it somehow.
MadMadPhineas: I realize I would need to work it out with her, but what does that have to do with my characterization? They respond to each others posts, and that's the most I can do if she doesn't want to log.
Angstgreeneyes: The thing is that I'm not seeing that connection being displayed in his actions.
MadMadPhineas: Not all of his actions are directly tied to Kyoko. It was the same in the manga. She's extremely important to him, but they are autonomous people.
Angstgreeneyes: I understand that, but as I said, that's the crit in that area. I'm not seeing any brotherly love really from him.
MadMadPhineas: Because he doesn't mention her in every post?
MadMadPhineas: Other than including her in his posts consistently, there's nothing much I can do if the other mun isn't willing.
MadMadPhineas: I'm also not sure what any of this has to do with him having a feminine voice. (Unless you just haven't gotten to that yet and I'm being impatient, in which case, sorry.)
Angstgreeneyes: I haven't gotten to that yet.
MadMadPhineas: Okay.
Angstgreeneyes: And I really haven't seen him mentioning her at all.
MadMadPhineas: Well, he's made two posts since she got there. One was on White Day, when she was listed as a person he gave a gift to. His next post was about...wallabies. Which has nothing to do with Kyoko.
MadMadPhineas: He has mentioned her to pretty much everyone he knows who he's talked to since she arrived, though.
Angstgreeneyes: Be back in a bit. Doing something complicated
MadMadPhineas: Okay.
Angstgreeneyes: It hasn't finished. I'm going to have to get back to you later.
MadMadPhineas: Okay.
That was just as confusing as the PMs. She didn't seem to be listening to me much, has somewhat unrealistic expectations of what other players should do to entertain her in-game, and never actually got to her original complaint. Every time I rebutted something, she brought up something new and unrelated. Because of that, you can probably tell that I was getting impatient with her toward the end.
Initially I thought she meant well, but was just inarticulate. Then I read these anonymous comments she posted on Hibari's concrit post. They're not actually anonymous because they are Ritsuka-mun.
So apparently she just has a problem with ME. Which would explain why it felt like she was pulling stuff out of thin air as we talked.
Since then, I've gone through and found canonical evidence for:
1) Ryohei's sensitivity towards girls
2) Ryohei drinking at least often enough to prefer a particular type of sake
3) Ryohei and Hibari's friendship (second post, under the cut)
I also documented (in a SPREADSHEET) every thread and log Ryohei has been in, the URL to the entry, who else was involved, the date, and a brief description of what happened, to prove that Ryohei has CR with non-Hibari entities. lmfao turns out he has A LOT, but that many of his in-game friends either went through an inactive spell recently or were dropped in the last couple months. That being the case, funny that he'd start hanging out with Hibari more. Right? Right.
Finally, I asked around with other players whose characters Ryohei interacts with. Those who didn't know the canon I asked if they thought he was feminine sounding or inconsistent; those who knew the canon (especially past and present canon mates) I asked if they had any problems with my characterization. None of them said they had ever noticed anything wrong with any of the things that this girl was pointing out. And I'm assuming they're being honest with me because there's no reason why they wouldn't have been. (The only criticisms I got were that I don't make Ryohei loud enough sometimes, and that I, as a mun, am kind of needy when it comes to logs. Both of these things are true and I freely admit to them. orz)
So. I think the moral of the story here is that I document shit like crazy, and get really defensive and dig up evidence to cover my ass when questioned.
But for the record, the whole "I don't know your canon, but I'll tell you how to play your character, and if you want, I'll read the canon to help you with characterization" thing was REALLY INCREDIBLY AND EXTREMELY insulting and rude.
To the extreme.
On this entry, Ryohei interrupted a thread between Hibari and Ritsuka. You will notice if you scroll down that Ritsuka did the same thing to Hibari and Poland.
So then I get a PM. Which initiates a string of PMs, as follows. (no_no_badtouch is Ritsuka-mun, kyokugen_sun is me on my Ryohei account.)
no_no_badtouch wrote:
I'm going to ask you very nicely right now to stop thread jacking the conversations between Hibari and Ritsuka. Doing so once is fine, but doing so so that Hibari and Ritsuka can't have a conversation is incredibly rude.
As I said, I'm going to ask very nicely right now but if you continue without asking (and as it stands right now my answer is that it is not alright) I will report your actions to the mods of the game.
kyokugen_sun wrote:
I don't recall ever having thread jacked one of their threads before. Could you direct me to a thread where this has happened before today?
I apologize if this bothers you. However, you have Ritsuka jack threads often, and I doubt that you ask every time you intend to do it. I DO make a point of asking when I jack an action thread, but because this takes place as communication over the network, and the thread was not locked, anyone has access to it. I know this, because I have asked the mods in the past.
no_no_badtouch wrote:
When Ritsuka jacks a thread he does not block communication between the two characters, which is what you were previously doing between Hibari and Ritsuka. Every new comment they were making between one another had a comment from you blocking direct communication. This is both rude and inappropriate.
Since my comment to you it has gotten better but it is inappropriate to thread jack in the way you were doing before.
kyokugen_sun wrote:
Okay, you've lost me. I'm honestly not sure what it is that's wrong. I only jacked one thread. All of Ryohei's subsequent comments have been directly in response to something one or the other of them has said TO HIM. Hibari's response to Ryohei's initial comment (when he said, "Stay out. You're as bad as him.") was directed at Ryohei, not at Ritsuka. In that case, it was Ritsuka who interrupted that thread, not Ryohei.
I apologize if I'm misunderstanding here. If you'd rather IM me, my AIM is MadMadPhineas.
no_no_badtouch wrote:
After reading and re-reading the threads I think I see the issue that I was having. While what I was saying is still true in a general sense, I'm trying to figure out why the jack happened in the first place.
It's probably my fault because while I follow what you've been doing with the character I don't know the cannon for him. Anyway, there's more I'd like to say in general right now but it's not really an appropriate time to be saying it since this was a specific circumstance issue and not a general crit on the character.
I am sorry for jumping on something that seems to not have been entirely the case in this situation though. I may have been overreacting to the fact that once Ryohei became involved the situation escalated to a place that I was neither planning nor wanted it to go.
kyokugen_sun wrote:
Once again, I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding what's going on. Are you referring to this journal entry or to the overall situation with Hibari and Seimei (and by extension Ryohei and Ritsuka)?
If you mean the latter, Ryohei has had very little to do with the situation. He confessed to Hibari that he liked him several weeks ago, but since then had very little to do directly with that situation and the way it progressed. He did hang out with Hibari, but the two of them are friends, and he did not push Hibari in one direction or the other.
If you're referring to Ryohei punching Seimei, I warned Seimei-mun about it beforehand that it would happen if certain things in-game happened, and I asked if it would be okay. If you're worried about whether or not that response is in character, I can show you in his canon a situation in which he does almost the exact same thing.
I'm not sure that any of Ryohei's actions have had to do with Ritsuka directly other than the few times they've talked over the network and the one time they met in person at New Years.
Again, if you'd rather discuss this with me on AIM, feel free to IM me at MadMadPhineas. It might be a little easier for us both to explain ourselves in realtime rather than through this method.
[Note: I got some flak for Ryohei's confession to Hibari and the following circumstances, mainly because Seimei-mun apparently decided that it was personally directed at him rather than related to anything in game. In fact, it was building up over weeks of interactions between Ryohei and Hibari (which I can prove, as I will mention below), and I did in fact warn both Seimei- and Hibari-mun about Ryohei's feelings and that he would confess beforehand.]
no_no_badtouch wrote:
I'm honestly not very good at explaining my thoughts either way. I'm a writer, so I generally read threads and such even if they don't have anything to do with my character or any characters that mine interact with, so I end up looking at a lot of people's writing from a more distant perspective. I wasn't talking about the situation with Hibari and Seimei at all. What I'm talking about is Ryohei's general actions. How he interacts and does things in a general way.
His voice honestly sounds more like a jilted girlfriend or, well, a very female voice in general when he talks to anyone. His voice is very strongly feminine in nature and, while as I said before I don't know the cannon at all I have a friend who's a huge fan of the character and she tells me a lot about the character. From what I've grown to understand from that and the Ryohei's that I've played with in other games he seems to not be that feminine. I can try to read/watch the series and give you a stronger character analysis once I do if you want, but that's the gist of what I was trying to say about him. It honestly has nothing to do with the situation with Hibari except that I'd maybe look into doing less CR with him and more CR outside of cannon. The analysis is from looking at his interactions with other characters, like Helana and such.
I don't know if I'm explaining myself well enough and I'm sorry if I'm not. I can try again if you want. I can also see what I can do about reading the manga, but I might not get very far in it, but still, I can try.
At this point, I IMed a mod and ended up forwarding the PMs to her. Mainly because I didn't know if this would escalate, and if it DID and came to the attention of the mods, I felt it was fair that they be given a heads up early on.
Also, if anyone who read those PMs isn't as confused as I am about them, congratulations. I had no idea what the hell she was talking about half the time, due to how vague and inarticulate she was. And because her story kept changing.
So next, I IMed her about it. To see if we could get this cleared up.
MadMadPhineas: Hey, I just got your most recent PM. I thought it might be easier for us to talk over AIM.
Angstgreeneyes: Maybe. I'm just pretty bad with talking.
MadMadPhineas: That's okay. It just seems a bit easier to be able to talk directly.
MadMadPhineas: I'm honestly having trouble figuring out what it is that you have a problem with. First you were talking about thread jacking, then it had to do with Ryohei's response altering the way your thread went somehow, and now the problem seems to be with my characterization.
MadMadPhineas: I'd like to be able to defend myself a bit, but I'm not sure what it is the issue is.
Angstgreeneyes: Sorry. I just of jumped all over. I apologize. Like I said in the one reply. I'm sorry about the thread jacking comment.
Angstgreeneyes: I also didn't mean to sound as if I were blaming you for things going in a weird way with the threads. I just meant I was cattered with a lot going on.
MadMadPhineas: Ah. I see. So the real complaint is my characterization then?
Angstgreeneyes: Well, I wasn't going to say anything at first and then it more or less ended up being said.
Angstgreeneyes: Mostly because it's been bothering me and confusing me for a while now. Not as Ritsuka's player but in general.
MadMadPhineas: That's alright. If there's an issue I'd like to address it.
MadMadPhineas: Can you give me examples of what it is you're having a problem with?
Angstgreeneyes: Well, is Ryohei supposed to have an extremely feminine voice?
MadMadPhineas: I don't recognize what it is about his voice that you find feminine.
MadMadPhineas: That's why I'd like some examples.
Angstgreeneyes: Sure. Let me pull some up in threads.
MadMadPhineas: Thanks.
Angstgreeneyes: It might take a bit. I'm trying to swap and set up a new computer so I was closing windows.
Angstgreeneyes: And this computer is really slow
MadMadPhineas: Take your time.
MadMadPhineas: I would like to go ahead and say that my Ryohei isn't as loud as he tends to be in the canon. Mainly because it would be hard to get him to interact with anyone if all he did was yell. However, in his canon, he is fairly quiet a lot of the time. It's only when he's excited or upset about something that he tends to become loud.
MadMadPhineas: Just to make clear that I know about my tendency to do this.
Angstgreeneyes: I'm sorry. Helana's pages aren't loading and I have to go through her comments.
MadMadPhineas: It's okay.
MadMadPhineas: I just wanted to get that out of the way, since that's the only complaint my friends who have read the canon really have about my portrayal of Ryohei.
MadMadPhineas: Which isn't to say that I don't consider other comments on his characterization valid. Just that if that was one of your comments, I'm already aware of it.
Angstgreeneyes: One of the cannon things I was told about was the amount of drinking that he does. I've been told a lot that he's not a drinker which, fighter-wise makes sense. He seems to be either turning into an alchaholic with how much there's drinking in posts and comments. The most notable is http://kyokugen-sun.livejournal.com/3874.html and http://kyokugen-sun.livejournal.com/4700.html.
Angstgreeneyes: I understand that drinking does occur, but they were really close together and I've always wondered why he all of a sudden started turning into a lush.
Angstgreeneyes: Because it seems weird for a boxer to be drinking so much.
MadMadPhineas: In his canon, there's at least one occasion (as a teenager) in which he drinks.
Angstgreeneyes: But one occasion doesn't make a continuing thing.
MadMadPhineas: I can find a link to it if you'd like, but he actually doesn't drink that much in the mansion, either.
MadMadPhineas: Usually if/when he drinks, he doesn't drink much, because he IS very health conscious.
MadMadPhineas: In the case where he drank with Hibari, he may have gotten buzzed but he wasn't drunk.
MadMadPhineas: And in the case where he drank with Poland, Poland gave him a much stronger drink than he was used to.
MadMadPhineas: I wouldn't say that those two instances make him a lush.
Angstgreeneyes: Honestly, the way it was handled seemed very much so to the reader.
MadMadPhineas: It seemed that he drank more often or that he was more drunk than I said?
Angstgreeneyes: Both to be honest.
MadMadPhineas: Before his sister appeared, he was a bit depressed at his situation. He's not the sort of person to be depressed though, so he didn't know exactly how to handle it. The fact that he does drink at least some in canon (in a situation where he failed and was disappointed in himself, specifically) indicates to me that he wouldn't be adverse to drinking a bit to take the edge off of negative feelings.
MadMadPhineas: However, he doesn't usually drink to excess when he does drink, and other than those two instances, I've never specifically had him drinking anything alcoholic.
Angstgreeneyes: Honestly, what you said tere is kind of describing a budding alcaholic.
Angstgreeneyes: What I've been told of him as a character is very much a person who doesn't give up and keeps fighting no matter how difficult the circumstances or how hopeless. I haven't seen any attempts to 'fight' his situation. Not even when he first showed up. He hasn't dealt with the more adverse situations and yet he's'taking the edge off' instead of fighting by trying to find a way out even when he's told it's hopeless. That seems very uncharacteristic for any character that has a reason to go home.
Angstgreeneyes: Especially one that is as tenacious as this one is claimed to be.
Angstgreeneyes: Gyoku even tried to fight back, manipulate te system and make things go in a way that would help him go home. Which is someting tat makes the character more realistic and believable. I just can't understand how Ryohei would be so easy to start drinking and obsessing over things that aren't going home when he's supposed to be such a strong personality and person.
MadMadPhineas: For one thing, he didn't just "start drinking". As I said, he only drinks occassionally, and not to excess with one or two exceptions. For another, he hasn't given up. And one of the sources of his frustration is that he can't find a specific THING to fight. He isn't necessarily good at thinking in abstract terms, so he looks for a concrete target to direct his energies at and in the situation of being stuck in Wonderland there ISN'T a concrete target. You could say that the queen is, but he knows that it isn't as easy to get to her as one might think.
MadMadPhineas: And I'm honestly not sure what you mean by "he hasn't dealt with the more adverse situations."
Angstgreeneyes: Just that Wonderland can get a LOT worse.
MadMadPhineas: It can. But he's only been there a few months, and he can only go based on what he's experienced himself while there.
MadMadPhineas: he's the kind of person who learns by experiencing things, not just by being told them.
Angstgreeneyes: I understand that. Which is fine. It's just that you're not showing him doing anything but basically giving up. Which I find odd.
MadMadPhineas: I'm not sure how his actions can be construed as giving up. Do you mean the fact that all of his entries don't consist of "HEY GUYS LET'S FIND A WAY OUT TO THE EXTREME"?
Angstgreeneyes: Also, if he learns by actions then why hasn't he actually tried to leave. He just sort of hunkered down and went 'meh, guess I'm living here' in actions. That seems odd.
MadMadPhineas: He came from a bad point in his canon, and being aware that time doesn't pass at home while he's there, he's not actually in much of a hurry. Most of his friends are (or were) in Wonderland, so it felt as much like home as where he came from.
Angstgreeneyes: It's not voice, it's actions. I haven't seen him do anything except worry about what goes in in the mansion. I was extremely confused when his sister showed up and I didn't see him really make any sort of announcelment that who is supposed to be the most important person in his world had showed it. It seemed to pass as if it was nothing
Angstgreeneyes: So you're saying that because his situation was bad he just gave up and decided to make house?
MadMadPhineas: No, I'm not saying that. And he has, on several occasions, declared to people that he wants to go home.
MadMadPhineas: Also, why does everything that happens to a character need to be put on the network?
MadMadPhineas: His sister arrived, and he was so happy about it that he probably got distracted and didn't think to make an announcement.
MadMadPhineas: Because he was too busy actually spending time with her.
MadMadPhineas: He has kind of a short attention span.
Angstgreeneyes: That's where logs come into play.
Angstgreeneyes: Where are the logs that show that he was spending time with her? Otherwise you're saying it and I can't really agree because there's nothing for me to see
Angstgreeneyes: As a reader.
MadMadPhineas: He did log with Kyoko immediately after she arrived. And I can only do logs if the other player is willing to.
MadMadPhineas: Kyoko's mun and I tend to like to assume certain things about our character interactions. We know that Ryohei and Kyoko spend time together.
MadMadPhineas: Unfortunately, I'm playing this game for my own satisfaction, not for an audience.
MadMadPhineas: Well, not unfortunately for me.
MadMadPhineas: But for people who prefer to have documentation of as many interactions as possible.
Angstgreeneyes: Then that is a problem you have to deal with with the other party.
Angstgreeneyes: Then you need to show it somehow.
MadMadPhineas: I realize I would need to work it out with her, but what does that have to do with my characterization? They respond to each others posts, and that's the most I can do if she doesn't want to log.
Angstgreeneyes: The thing is that I'm not seeing that connection being displayed in his actions.
MadMadPhineas: Not all of his actions are directly tied to Kyoko. It was the same in the manga. She's extremely important to him, but they are autonomous people.
Angstgreeneyes: I understand that, but as I said, that's the crit in that area. I'm not seeing any brotherly love really from him.
MadMadPhineas: Because he doesn't mention her in every post?
MadMadPhineas: Other than including her in his posts consistently, there's nothing much I can do if the other mun isn't willing.
MadMadPhineas: I'm also not sure what any of this has to do with him having a feminine voice. (Unless you just haven't gotten to that yet and I'm being impatient, in which case, sorry.)
Angstgreeneyes: I haven't gotten to that yet.
MadMadPhineas: Okay.
Angstgreeneyes: And I really haven't seen him mentioning her at all.
MadMadPhineas: Well, he's made two posts since she got there. One was on White Day, when she was listed as a person he gave a gift to. His next post was about...wallabies. Which has nothing to do with Kyoko.
MadMadPhineas: He has mentioned her to pretty much everyone he knows who he's talked to since she arrived, though.
Angstgreeneyes: Be back in a bit. Doing something complicated
MadMadPhineas: Okay.
Angstgreeneyes: It hasn't finished. I'm going to have to get back to you later.
MadMadPhineas: Okay.
That was just as confusing as the PMs. She didn't seem to be listening to me much, has somewhat unrealistic expectations of what other players should do to entertain her in-game, and never actually got to her original complaint. Every time I rebutted something, she brought up something new and unrelated. Because of that, you can probably tell that I was getting impatient with her toward the end.
Initially I thought she meant well, but was just inarticulate. Then I read these anonymous comments she posted on Hibari's concrit post. They're not actually anonymous because they are Ritsuka-mun.
So apparently she just has a problem with ME. Which would explain why it felt like she was pulling stuff out of thin air as we talked.
Since then, I've gone through and found canonical evidence for:
1) Ryohei's sensitivity towards girls
2) Ryohei drinking at least often enough to prefer a particular type of sake
3) Ryohei and Hibari's friendship (second post, under the cut)
I also documented (in a SPREADSHEET) every thread and log Ryohei has been in, the URL to the entry, who else was involved, the date, and a brief description of what happened, to prove that Ryohei has CR with non-Hibari entities. lmfao turns out he has A LOT, but that many of his in-game friends either went through an inactive spell recently or were dropped in the last couple months. That being the case, funny that he'd start hanging out with Hibari more. Right? Right.
Finally, I asked around with other players whose characters Ryohei interacts with. Those who didn't know the canon I asked if they thought he was feminine sounding or inconsistent; those who knew the canon (especially past and present canon mates) I asked if they had any problems with my characterization. None of them said they had ever noticed anything wrong with any of the things that this girl was pointing out. And I'm assuming they're being honest with me because there's no reason why they wouldn't have been. (The only criticisms I got were that I don't make Ryohei loud enough sometimes, and that I, as a mun, am kind of needy when it comes to logs. Both of these things are true and I freely admit to them. orz)
So. I think the moral of the story here is that I document shit like crazy, and get really defensive and dig up evidence to cover my ass when questioned.
But for the record, the whole "I don't know your canon, but I'll tell you how to play your character, and if you want, I'll read the canon to help you with characterization" thing was REALLY INCREDIBLY AND EXTREMELY insulting and rude.
To the extreme.