Jossverse morality: updated? (musings on recent IDW comics)
This is a compilation from my posts on different forums (BuffyForums, SlayAlive, BuffyBoards, IDW Forums) - I wanted to collect my random thoughts in one post
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the idea of souled!Dru is insanely cool. I've always felt sorry for her, and I'd love to see her regain control of her life.
Agree! This is a chance to tell an absolutely new story about her. If Joss really plans to turn Spike into a (more foolhardy) Mal Reynolds, why not reinvent Dru as a new River?
Also, to my surprise, the thought of a S9 Buffy/souled!Spike/souled!Dru triangle actually makes me giddy. I don't think it could fly post-Chosen or post-NFA, but Spike and Buffy have been distanced enough in the comics that I could see souled!Dru posing an actual romantic threat.
I know that I should be against this idea, as a Spuffy shipper - but I'm not. Partly because I know that Joss will always keep Buffy miserable - so he'd better make her jealous of Drusilla than engage poor Buffster in space-frak.
maybe Spike can keep passing his soul around ( ... )
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Hmm, I'm not sure I'd want Dru to be a River, though. I don't like the idea of Dru being useful only as a weapon (River is much more than that, but it does take her a while to get there) or as being completely crazy. I don't think she could ever be fully sane again, but I'd prefer to see her some of her faculties return, as well as her chaste, mature human personality. My ideal Dru would be one who felt guilt for her past but was also rational enough to realize that Angelus made her into a looney tune and deserves most of the blame. I'd love if Buffy had to come to terms with a wise, more-or-less sane Dru who appreciated all that Spike had done for her over the century and had a lot more in common with Spike than Buffy (in terms of their Victorian upbringing). Plus, I think Joss used up his pseudo-River in the Buffyverse with Dana. Dru has so much more potential.
I know that I should be against this idea, as a Spuffy ( ... )
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Hmm, I'm not sure I'd want Dru to be a River, though. I don't like the idea of Dru being useful only as a weapon (River is much more than that, but it does take her a while to get there) or as being completely crazy.
I never regarded River as just a weapon. To me, she was a complex, tragic figure with enormous capacity to feel compassion and desire to protect people. I remember reading fics in which she turns out to be a slayer of the future.
I don't think she could ever be fully sane again, but I'd prefer to see her some of her faculties return, as well as her chaste, mature human personality. My ideal Dru would be one who felt guilt for her past but was also rational enough to realize that Angelus made her into a looney tune and deserves most of the blame. Joss tends to kill off non-Scoobie characters who are good people (Tara, Fred), so I hope that Dru won't turn too good. (But, of course, it's strictly theoretical: souled Dru is unprecedented, I haven't ( ... )
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To me, she was a complex, tragic figure with enormous capacity to feel compassion and desire to protect people. I remember reading fics in which she turns out to be a slayer of the future.
She definitely is much more than a weapon, but I feel like most of her growth occurred in the movie, and I'd rather see a faster self-actualization for Dru. Another big difference for me is that Dru seems so much older than River. Though I know some of it is Juliet Landau and Dru is actually probably supposed to be in her early twenties, human Dru seemed much older and at a different stage in her life than River. I think Snick wrote a fic about River being a future slayer and meeting Spike; it's quite good.
I'd love to see Buffy jealous and insecure and mad at Spike, and hating herself for pettiness, and eventually accepting Dru after some trials...
YES...jealous, insecure Buffy and mature Dru would be superb.
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*grovels*
"Back in 2004 I toyed with an idea for a fic: Fred is brought back soulless and Spike grants her his soul"
Did you ever write that story, Moscow? I remember when you talked about the idea, and when you wondered if that was what the comics would do. If you've written the fic, I'd love to read it! :)
THAT IS SO COOL. Spike would totally do it, too, for Fred. Oh man, and with Wes dead I could even support Spike/Fred. Seriously, that's an awesome idea.I'd give anything in the world if Dark Horse would bring Fred back to life, especially since there's so many interesting things like this that they could do with her story! (I thought that IDW had done it, until the horrible reveal that it wasn't Fred after all, but only Illyria mimicking her.) I'm praying that everyone who wants Fred back will write to Dark Horse and ( ... )
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Did you ever write that story, Moscow?
I tried to break it down a couple of times, but failed. The problem is, I'm not sure that soulless Fred needs a soul more than Spike. Then again, she's a brilliant scientist, so she could invent something very dangerous without thinking about consequences, putting her own scientific curiosity or pride of a trailblazer above humanity's interests...
I have to think about this possible plot again.
It wouldn't mean getting rid of Illyria; surely there's room in the comics for both characters! I think it largely depends on the overall theme in season 9. Bringing back Fred sans soul could be very topical if -- very big IF -- Joss plans to subvert traditional mythology of the soul ( ... )
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True! There's so many ways that VampFred could be portrayed: totally evil; Pylea-crazy to a higher degree; cold-blooded scientist; nice but amoral like Harmony...
In 2007 Nebula wrote a 27-chapter alternate reality AtS Season 5 fic called "Her Saving Grace", in which Fred is attacked in an alley, killed, and turned...and awakens as a very confused vampire. Souled Spike helps her in her efforts to be good without a soul, and to adjust to what she's lost and what she's gained by being turned. I love Nebula's interpretation of how Fred would act and think without a soul, and she writes both Fred and Spike very much in character. The discussions they have are great! Here's a link to the story ( ... )
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I vaguely remember reading Nebula's fic very long ago. It's a great piece and I'd gladly reread it!
I haven't read "Binding Ties" - I rarely read WIPs, because of the frustration of not knowing the ending is too big. But I'll try to read it - your description is intriguing.
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I think it largely depends on the overall theme in season 9. Bringing back Fred sans soul could be very topical if -- very big IF -- Joss plans to subvert traditional mythology of the soul.
It's pure speculation, but we know that Joss loves making Buffy miserable and he loves to surpass himself. To trump the level of angst of season 9, he has to come up with something earth-shattering in season 9. I think there is a distant possibility that in season 9 Buffy will find out that souls are not as crucial as The Council wanted her to believe. That Spike isn't the only soulless creature who could choose the path of good. In that situation, the return of soulless Fred - an innately good person - could be a fascinating twist!If only Joss could be convinced that his annihilation of Fred is not the greatest, most daring and fabulous thing he's ever done! From what I was told by Mariah at IDW, he never ever wants to bring Fred back because he ( ... )
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You know, I can't remember where I read it, but I remember rumors that if AtS weren't cancelled, in season 6 Wesley would've been forced to make a choice between Illyria and Fred. Maybe one of the actors said at a convention, I don't remember. If my memory doesn't play a bad joke on me, it means that Joss had plans for Fred. Why didn't he let IDW writers into his plans - who knows?
The very fact that he kept reminding about her in "After the Fall" - again and again! - is encouraging. Maybe he still has plans for Fred, after all.
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