negative review by fenderlove Aww, I thought my review was very positive. :(
they could easily strike back by recounting all Angel's crimes in season 8 Spuffies could do that with all of Angel's crimes ever, and they have. At length. Since S4. It didn't make a difference then, and it won't really make a difference now. Bangels still have the "glow" as the excuse for Angel's behavior (after all, if Buffy gets away with it as her little halo, then he can too), and Giles's death is attributed to Twilight since it possessed Angel at the time. There are a ton of excuses for him, and now he's got the pity factor because he's now insane out of guilt and is catatonic and needs 24/7 care to survive.
To make Spuffy ship dramatically viable, Joss has work to hard to find a radical new way to make our favorite blondes utterly miserable and heartbroken because of their feelings. How about Joss just starts writing decent stories? The human condition may include suffering, but generally people can go through their lives without pain and angst so dark that the "hero" wants to cut himself/herself just to see colour. Frankly, Spike deserves better. He deserves more than being someone's crutch, deserves someone who can show affection back, deserves someone whose first thoughts upon seeing him after watching him die aren't about his appearance or how good he is in bed. Now if Buffy becomes less emotionally constipated, then maybe she could then consider looking him up. Until then, I don't want Spike's independence dragged down by her issues. But then again, I write negative reviews, so it's to be expected. :D
Hee! Well, some people are very touchy, so I make kind of a warning that may not like what they find clicking on a link.
Bangels still have the "glow" as the excuse for Angel's behavior (after all, if Buffy gets away with it as her little halo, then he can too), and Giles's death is attributed to Twilight since it possessed Angel at the time. There are a ton of excuses for him, and now he's got the pity factor because he's now insane out of guilt and is catatonic and needs 24/7 care to survive.
There is a lot of "pre-glow" stuff. And "pity factor" don't work in shipper debates.
The human condition may include suffering, but generally people can go through their lives without pain and angst so dark that the "hero" wants to cut himself/herself just to see colour
To me, Joss writes pure, unadulterated tragedy. All the time. Buffy may be cute, bouncy and perky, but she's the ultimate tragic hero. Spike may have awful TV tastes, but he's the ultimate tragic hero. Angel may have started in season 1 as a token mysterious hunk, but, in the end, he's a real tragic hero, who pits himself against the world - and loses. Heartbreaking? Yes. I find it brilliant.
YMMV, of course. Let's agree to disagree, okay?
Frankly, Spike deserves better. He deserves more than being someone's crutch, deserves someone who can show affection back, deserves someone whose first thoughts upon seeing him after watching him die aren't about his appearance or how good he is in bed.
Yes, he deserves all that - and then some. But would you read a story in which he actually has everything he deserves? The less he has, the more I love him and the more I want to write and read Spuffy fanfiction.
Now if Buffy becomes less emotionally constipated, then maybe she could then consider looking him up. Until then, I don't want Spike's independence dragged down by her issues.
There will be a Spike miniseries where he'll act as an independent hero. Hopefully it'll be a great story - I look forward to it.
And "pity factor" don't work in shipper debates. Sure, it does. A lot of shippers of various flags and creeds use it. "Dark places" and "split personalities" are all excuses to evoke pity for the characters so that they can stay together.
But would you read a story in which he actually has everything he deserves? YES! Dear God, yes! I want him to be happy. I want him to have fulfillment. Hell, I want that for all the characters. I don't want them to suffer needlessly and endlessly, which is completely pointless. Joss claims he hates "torture porn" type movies, but that's all he writes. Suffering for suffering's sake is just senseless; it makes actual tragedy lose its meaning. Eventually you wind up with a bunch of people who are all dead inside, who want nothing because they just don't care, no emotions, no feelings. They'd all be sitting in a dark room, pinching themselves just to feel something, having sex for the sensation feeling disconnected from everything. Just because people have a modicum of happiness in their lives does not mean that their lives are sunshine and rainbows and puppies. They would still have conflict and tragedy. What good are they if they are so damaged that all they have left is the suffering? Nothing. They cannot be effective, and they will be more distracted by their own pain the actual suffering of others who need their help. There has to be a light at the end of the tunnel. Personally, I'm a sadist, and even I am turned off by the amount of gluttonous pain that Joss doles out to his creations. It just doesn't mean anything anymore when that's all that's left. So, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that point.
Sure, it does. A lot of shippers of various flags and creeds use it. "Dark places" and "split personalities" are all excuses to evoke pity for the characters so that they can stay together.
I interacted with Spike haters for a while, and my experience taught me, that pity factor is the most ridiculed argument: "you feel sorry for your poor Spikey-wikey, who..." [a list of his evil deeds to follow]. Fans of a character can find solace in pitying him among themselves, but fandom at large doesn't accept such arguments.
I want him to be happy. I want him to have fulfillment. Hell, I want that for all the characters.
... while I want to want them to be happy. As soon as they are happy, the urge to ship them is gone. So I want drama, I want terrible trials, I want angst and heartbreak.
Yes, certainly we we have to agree to disagree. Hope I don't offend you with my sadistic urges. :)
Aww, I thought my review was very positive. :(
they could easily strike back by recounting all Angel's crimes in season 8
Spuffies could do that with all of Angel's crimes ever, and they have. At length. Since S4. It didn't make a difference then, and it won't really make a difference now. Bangels still have the "glow" as the excuse for Angel's behavior (after all, if Buffy gets away with it as her little halo, then he can too), and Giles's death is attributed to Twilight since it possessed Angel at the time. There are a ton of excuses for him, and now he's got the pity factor because he's now insane out of guilt and is catatonic and needs 24/7 care to survive.
To make Spuffy ship dramatically viable, Joss has work to hard to find a radical new way to make our favorite blondes utterly miserable and heartbroken because of their feelings.
How about Joss just starts writing decent stories? The human condition may include suffering, but generally people can go through their lives without pain and angst so dark that the "hero" wants to cut himself/herself just to see colour. Frankly, Spike deserves better. He deserves more than being someone's crutch, deserves someone who can show affection back, deserves someone whose first thoughts upon seeing him after watching him die aren't about his appearance or how good he is in bed. Now if Buffy becomes less emotionally constipated, then maybe she could then consider looking him up. Until then, I don't want Spike's independence dragged down by her issues. But then again, I write negative reviews, so it's to be expected. :D
Reply
Hee! Well, some people are very touchy, so I make kind of a warning that may not like what they find clicking on a link.
Bangels still have the "glow" as the excuse for Angel's behavior (after all, if Buffy gets away with it as her little halo, then he can too), and Giles's death is attributed to Twilight since it possessed Angel at the time. There are a ton of excuses for him, and now he's got the pity factor because he's now insane out of guilt and is catatonic and needs 24/7 care to survive.
There is a lot of "pre-glow" stuff. And "pity factor" don't work in shipper debates.
The human condition may include suffering, but generally people can go through their lives without pain and angst so dark that the "hero" wants to cut himself/herself just to see colour
To me, Joss writes pure, unadulterated tragedy. All the time. Buffy may be cute, bouncy and perky, but she's the ultimate tragic hero. Spike may have awful TV tastes, but he's the ultimate tragic hero. Angel may have started in season 1 as a token mysterious hunk, but, in the end, he's a real tragic hero, who pits himself against the world - and loses. Heartbreaking? Yes. I find it brilliant.
YMMV, of course. Let's agree to disagree, okay?
Frankly, Spike deserves better. He deserves more than being someone's crutch, deserves someone who can show affection back, deserves someone whose first thoughts upon seeing him after watching him die aren't about his appearance or how good he is in bed.
Yes, he deserves all that - and then some. But would you read a story in which he actually has everything he deserves? The less he has, the more I love him and the more I want to write and read Spuffy fanfiction.
Now if Buffy becomes less emotionally constipated, then maybe she could then consider looking him up. Until then, I don't want Spike's independence dragged down by her issues.
There will be a Spike miniseries where he'll act as an independent hero. Hopefully it'll be a great story - I look forward to it.
Reply
Sure, it does. A lot of shippers of various flags and creeds use it. "Dark places" and "split personalities" are all excuses to evoke pity for the characters so that they can stay together.
But would you read a story in which he actually has everything he deserves?
YES! Dear God, yes! I want him to be happy. I want him to have fulfillment. Hell, I want that for all the characters. I don't want them to suffer needlessly and endlessly, which is completely pointless. Joss claims he hates "torture porn" type movies, but that's all he writes. Suffering for suffering's sake is just senseless; it makes actual tragedy lose its meaning. Eventually you wind up with a bunch of people who are all dead inside, who want nothing because they just don't care, no emotions, no feelings. They'd all be sitting in a dark room, pinching themselves just to feel something, having sex for the sensation feeling disconnected from everything. Just because people have a modicum of happiness in their lives does not mean that their lives are sunshine and rainbows and puppies. They would still have conflict and tragedy. What good are they if they are so damaged that all they have left is the suffering? Nothing. They cannot be effective, and they will be more distracted by their own pain the actual suffering of others who need their help. There has to be a light at the end of the tunnel. Personally, I'm a sadist, and even I am turned off by the amount of gluttonous pain that Joss doles out to his creations. It just doesn't mean anything anymore when that's all that's left. So, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that point.
Reply
I interacted with Spike haters for a while, and my experience taught me, that pity factor is the most ridiculed argument: "you feel sorry for your poor Spikey-wikey, who..." [a list of his evil deeds to follow]. Fans of a character can find solace in pitying him among themselves, but fandom at large doesn't accept such arguments.
I want him to be happy. I want him to have fulfillment. Hell, I want that for all the characters.
... while I want to want them to be happy. As soon as they are happy, the urge to ship them is gone. So I want drama, I want terrible trials, I want angst and heartbreak.
Yes, certainly we we have to agree to disagree. Hope I don't offend you with my sadistic urges. :)
Reply
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