chapter 218 thoughtdump

Nov 14, 2008 22:03

groove has gone through the raws and provided her own take on what's going on here. i'm still really confused, but her post really helped clear some things up for me ♥

of course, like the rest of the populace, i still have some questions.

just 'SOME' questions? )

khr, reborn!discussion

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Re: (uh, hi! total stranger here) kye_kestrel November 15 2008, 19:01:39 UTC
To add to this, (total shot in the dark, I just felt that it would be appropriate to add my comment here because of the points about Gokudera not knowing about Irie's double-agent status) it would... kind of make sense now if TYL!Hibari had been communicating with TYL!Irie. OTL, I dunno - Bhex, what you said on Plurk about Irie leaving a note for the guardians to find so that they'll know when exactly they're switching - what if it's something even more direct? What if, since it's 15-year-old Irie running around shooting the Vongola kids, TYL!Irie should remember the exact times he made the switches in the past, would know when young!Hibari got shot, probably informed TYL!Hibari about it, hence this?

... Exception to the rule might be Chrome, though? He seemed surprised to find her in Kokuyo Health Land. Of course, he could have been faking that surprise to fool the Cervello (who, I'm only starting to really realize, might be Byakuran's dogs, which explains why Irie's always so... stiff and jittery around them). And he might have been genuinely upset about Glo Xinia going there without his permission, because it put Chrome in unnecessary danger.

... orz, not making any sense, it's really really really late, but somewhere in here was supposed to be this very clear image of compartmentalized knowledge among the Vongola Guardians. 80 and 59 are too close to the boss, too "frontline", in other words. Too risky if they knew which side Irie is really on. But 69 and 18, on the other hand... now those two, I can actually picture as being capable of holding on to that knowledge to their graves. >_> Even though spilling their guts would have made things a lot less stressful for everyone around them.

:'D One final thing. I dun think that's 15-year-old Irie. 15-year-old Irie looks like this. Kind of a big difference to what we're seeing in chapter 218?

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Re: (uh, hi! total stranger here) surskitty November 15 2008, 20:39:38 UTC
More importantly, and this has bugged me for a while but hey!, 15-year-old Irie looks like this.

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posting another response is totally cooler than delete + repost >:| surskitty November 15 2008, 20:42:13 UTC
So really this chapter makes that one page of 171 that has 15YO-Irie with the mare ring in front of the Giant White Machine Thing make a hell of a lot more sense.

FORESHADOWING FORESHADOWING

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Re: posting another response is totally cooler than delete + repost >:| morphaileffect November 15 2008, 23:51:52 UTC
it... doesn't actually make sense to me if it were 15yo!irie we're seeing stepping out of his millefiore garb. i think it's more plausible that it's 20-something irie. but i'd love to hear more from you on this? i might just be on yama mode again and not getting the obvious (i wouldn't know, because i'm on yama mode) XD;

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Re: posting another response is totally cooler than delete + repost >:| surskitty November 16 2008, 00:23:07 UTC
Yeah, that is 10yl Irie stepping out of his Millefiore garb in 218 -- you can tell from the hair (past-Irie's hair isn't anywhere near as poofy) and also note that past-Irie's face is rounder -- but I meant more of...

... actually I don't remember what I meant. If past-Irie's involved with this, then that makes the switch between past-Irie and future-Irie in 171 make more sense because previously it was mostly just "...!? What does past-Irie have to do with the white machine and why does he have the mare ring?"

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Re: posting another response is totally cooler than delete + repost >:| morphaileffect November 16 2008, 01:29:13 UTC
ohhh i'm sorry i misunderstood - i thought you meant 218, not 171!! i get it now :D;

hmm i still don't get why 15yo!irie has the mare ring, and how he got it, actually... unless it's somehow in the bovino box that accidentally landed on his doorstep ages ago. and as groove pointed out, there was no switch in the latest chapter, so i can see that the 15yo!irie who had the mare ring grew up into the 20-something (i should resign myself to saying 24. i'm just not comfortable with 10yl ages since i don't know the exact date and the characters' birthdays XD;) irie whom everyone is facing at this moment.

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Re: posting another response is totally cooler than delete + repost >:| surskitty November 16 2008, 02:18:36 UTC
:3

Okay, okay, it's making more sense than it was and it looks like it'll actually make sense (as much as KHR ever makes sense, anyway) shortly. It's an improvement!

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Re: (uh, hi! total stranger here) kye_kestrel November 16 2008, 03:42:53 UTC
orz, I forgot about that image in chapter 171. +_+ Thanks for pointing it out.

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Re: (uh, hi! total stranger here) surskitty November 16 2008, 04:23:14 UTC
don't worry: I think most people did. :D \o/ I feel useful~~

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morphaileffect November 15 2008, 23:48:36 UTC
...so he told hibari, who later informed the rest of the vongola without letting on that he was coordinating with irie? gokudera knew about the switch and there's a good chance yamamoto did, too. mukuro probably knew, hence his suicide mission with byakuran (he knew he was going to escape - unless he's really dead now).

i suppose it's possible, since as thelovemafia had said, he's a more effective double agent if the rest of the vongola - especialy gokudera, poor guy xD - didn't know about his plans.

even if we're looking at the 20-something irie at the last pages of the chapter, and it makes sense that he would know the schedule - there's still the WHY IS 15-YEAR-OLD IRIE SHOOTING EVERYONE IN THE FIRST PLACE question. i mean, he wasn't being attacked so he couldn't have been shooting people in self-defense... he didn't have a reason to try out the weapons (presumably) in the bovino box on specific vongola-affiliated entities unless he had a clear-cut motive.

...i wonder, is it possible that someone left a note for younger irie to shoot the guardians at EXACT TIMES? this might not explain mukuro being shot later than chrome (how the heck was irie able to get to him on a schedule? he's in prison!) but it might explain how the other guardians knew. OR! the note might not be for irie, but for lambo (who is five and probably cannot read XD so they might be like, hypnotized instructions, so younger irie couldn't question or refuse the orders)... but even if that were true, we still aren't sure who that "someone" is who left the instructions. what would the bovino family know about the future?

(in conclusion, i love this chapter XD)

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kye_kestrel November 16 2008, 04:10:13 UTC
makeste's theory post makes much more sense - pretty much everything was explained and accounted for except for TYL!Gokudera's behavior, so I'm signing off on this now. :'D

I love this chapter, and I actually love the massive twist - I haven't had a mindfuck as extreme as this in a while now - but, trying to theorize about it kills brain cells. XD

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