Sam/Dean in 9x13 (spoilers)...Contextualizing the brothers' current issues

[morganlucas41]

So these are my somewhat disjointed thoughts on the humdinger of a Sam/Dean closing conversation in 913, and my attempts to contextualize it in terms of the boys' overall characterization. I'm just trying to make sense of it all and this is what I've come up with, though it's far from conclusive. SPOILERS through 913 but none beyond that.

Comments

[morganlucas41]

Dean's year with Lisa was different than Sam's with Amelia, I agree. But for me, I'm still not really clear on why Sam didn't look for Dean after Purgatory. That always seemed unexplained to me in S8. Maybe, now that Sam's laid down the gauntlet (by saying he wouldn't do the same thing as Dean in 901), maybe we'll get some explanation of that.

I absolutely believe Dean when he says "if there ain't no me, there ain't no you." And I think that's the problem - in order to go anywhere progressive with these characters, they have to explore WHY Dean feels that way. Why Dean feels that without Sam, he's worth nothing. That is the root of their troubles, their codependence, all of it, and they have to explore it if they're going to ever move on from it.

I have read elsewhere that Sam might get the chance to prove what he says here - if Dean ends up in a life-threatening/sacrificing situation with the Mark of Cain business. I think that could be really interesting.

Dean's definitely hurting right now. So far we've had two episodes with Sam getting to speak his mind and say what he thinks, but we haven't really seen anything from Dean's perspective. I would really like to see more of that.

[juppschmitz]

Just cutting in to nit-pick.

It wasn't Dean who said the "ain't no me - ain't no you" line. It was Gadreel who said it. And this line is actually a clue that it's Gadreel all the time, because it's just off, exactly like his throwaway line to Death about the cronuts.

What Dean said in the church was "Don't you dare think that there is anything, past or present, that I would put in front of you!" Which has a decidedly different meaning to it. It doesn't mean he's nothing without Sam, just that Sam is more important to him than anything else.

Gadreel just said what he thought would be most likely to throw Sam.

And btw, I think Dean feels he's worth nothing with or without Sam.

[tarynelliott]

Ding! Ding!
Gadreel saying that line is a huge difference. It's close enough to what Dean would say that Sam believed it, but def not Dean. That entire scene in Sam's head was his own imaginings w a healthy dose of Gadreel coming into his dream/consciousness IMHO. My clue was how diff Death was.

[morganlucas41]

Well, I know Gadreel said the line. And I was hesitant to use that line in my response because it's so divisive, and I don't really like the line, myself.

I think Dean feels - and has felt, since the beginning of the show - that his only worth is in his ability to take care of Sam. It seems like he was starting to come out from under that in S4/5, but he's reverted right back to that mentality now.

Dean essentially feels like he is worth nothing - but that it's his job to keep Sam alive, at all costs. And that's the problem that needs fixing.

[juppschmitz]

So what's your take on Dean having to save Sam's life three times in the last two episodes?

Like, should he have done it at all? I kind of think maybe Sam should have decided to work with a less competent hunter and not Dean at all, especially if their relationship is so strained at the moment? I find there are very mixed messags from Sam. Like, he doesn't know what the upside to him being alive is, but at the same time he never complained about these recent life-saving incidents...

[morganlucas41]

That's a good point. I don't think that Sam is inherently upset that Dean chose to save his life, he's upset that Dean allowed an angel to possess him - taking away his autonomy - when Sam, in fact, was ready to die.

I think the main thing that I'm confused about is, are we as the viewer supposed to think that Dean should have at any point let him die? If what he did in 901 was wrong, what was the alternative in that moment?

[juppschmitz]

True, that.

[abrakadabrah]

He is upset that Dean talked him down from finishing the trials when he is at a vulnerable point at the end. He was very serious about wanting to close the gates as an endpoint to his hunting career and as a way to save lives -- although he wasn't thinking initially that the endpoint would mean his death, but he was willing to go there. But he wanted out and to move on.

Whereas Dean was coming off of a year intense buddy bonding and fighting with Benny. Living the purity of the fight. Hunting all day, every day with his other brother, doing anything necessary to help each other survive. Part of the purity was that intense fighting relationship with Benny.

They were in such different places mentally/emotionally last year. And they still are in the aftermath of that year.

[morganlucas41]

Well, that's a good point about them being in different places. While I still don't think Dean should have, at any point, just let Sam die, I do like the point you've made here. It will be interesting to see the two of them try to reconcile their differing world views now. Also, this also makes what Sam said a few episodes ago - that they see their "roles" in this thing differently - make more sense.

[tabaqui]

I'm not clear, either, and there *was* someone watching Sam when he left Amelia's house - i really want to know who that was!!

Oh, i had not heard that re: Sam. I'm so *hand flails* over the whole Mark of Cain deal. I wonder if it give Dean any special powers or protections - i wonder if demons will now be terrified of him? SO MUCH TO WORK WITH.

I love this show, i love these boys. I may have quibbles with some episodes or side stories, but in nine seasons, *nothing* has made me want to quit this show.

*can't wait for the 25th*

[morganlucas41]

Agreed, there is so much to work with regarding the Mark of Cain, and I'm really interested to see where they go with it.

The show IS frustrating at times - but at this point I'm so invested in the characters that I can't imagine quitting it. I'm in this for the long haul :)