SPN 7.17 - The Born-Again Identity

[morganlucas41]

Wow. I don't even know what to say.

That was an emotional roller coaster of an episode, that's for sure.

Comments

[inplayruns]

I've seen Dean get a lot of criticism for his actions in this episode and - don't get me wrong, I was FURIOUS with him at the end, and out of Sam, Cas, and him, he came off looking the worst by far. Heck, he didn't really come off any better than Meg. (But on the other hand, he had really difficult decisions to make that the other people didn't. What would you do if you found a guy who had the face and abilities of your best friend, who died after hurting you so badly, but you still cared for deeply, and he didn't remember you, and he had a new life that he seemed to like?) But the criticism of him has been over strange things, like the moment with the coat. I really didn't see it as manipulation, and even if you did him still having that coat with him in the car after all those months and all those different cars says so much.

The more I think about it, the more I'm intrigued about what they're going to do with Meg. I see a lot of praise for her being honest with Dean and Castiel, but... demon. I know they had really no other options than leaving her there to watch Cas, but I think we should wait for the rest of the season before we heap praise on her for being so completely honest when the others weren't.

I would LOVE the idea of a redemption arc for a demon, and a good demon/Leviathan/whatever, but Meg has some serious redemption to do, in that case. This isn't like when people call for Sam or Dean or Cas' head for some perceived slight to their precious pet character, she has done really horrible things. Just because she did it for the love of her father - and yes, that's an interesting parallel to everyone else on this show - doesn't justify killing innocent civilians, or taking over Sam's body for kicks and doing horrible things in it.

Also, the wife thing - if they never address it again, that is one of the most infuriating dropped plotlines on this show, lol. Not because OMG CAS MARRIED A LADY HDU MY SHIP SUNK but because the basis of that relationship was weird as anything and... wouldn't she care that her husband just vanished? But for now, I'm reserving judgment on that.

Even with my little nitpicky issues, and I feel like I've been EXTREMELY nitpicky, I liked this episode even better on a re-watch, now that I'm not trying to absorb everything that's happening while I watch it. Here's to cautious optimism!

[morganlucas41]

Yeah, I'm really glad that wherever I hang out in fandom, I haven't seen these strange criticisms, lol. I anticipated that people might see Dean's actions as callous initially, but I really feel like he made the best of an impossible situation. The trench coat scene, in particular - I thought it was incredibly well-done, so open and emotional and raw. I don't see any room whatsoever for "manipulation" in that scene, if nothing else.

I'm not really sure how Dean comes off as "so much worse" than Sam or Cas? Well...given that they both suffer from traumatic hallucinations at some point, yeah, but apart from that...it seems like he did what he had to do to save Sam, while still trying to do right by Cas, too. And again, Dean is Mr. Emotional Repression. I'm used to seemingly callous, unlikeable decisions being made on his part. It doesn't change how he feels underneath, IMO (and scenes like the trench coat one, or any number of scenes he's had with Sam, prove how Dean really feels in spite of his brash words).

You know, I'm also intrigued by the idea of a redemption story for Meg. To go way back, I actually really liked the idea of Ruby being good/on their side, until that was blown completely to hell. I thought they might go there with Crowley, too, but no. And because of both those instances, I'm extremely wary of trusting Meg. I don't think I ever fully will, at all. I really see Meg as a temporary stop-gap measure at this point in the SL. She's literally the best option the boys have, but she's still a terrible ally. So they'll use her as long as they absolutely have to, but by no means are they "friends" now really.

I'm really not sure what the purpose of Daphne was. One, the way she and Cas met is extremely sketchy. And two, it does seem likely that they'll just ignore her now - hell, does anyone remember Claire and Amelia (who Cas promised to protect?) So it's pretty weird, unless they've got something else planned, idk.

Yeah, I like the episode better each time I watch it, too. Now let's just hope things stay this way!

[inplayruns]

Yeah, I don't know why I keep seeing stuff like that. I blame Tumblr because I mostly just observe over there, I guess. ;_____;

I guess - heh, yeah, that's basically it, Sam and Cas make some pretty spectacular sacrifices so of course Dean is going to come off poorly compared to them. I think it's just how callous he seems in his last scene that really stuck with me. And it makes sense why he was that callous, even, it just needed... a transition scene, or something.

I loved those ideas with Ruby and Crowley. Heck, they're still two of my favorite characters. I like that Crowley's a demon who's not just senselessly evil, and if they sorta redeem Meg - again, they will have to do a LOT, and they'll have to do it very carefully, because she killed Caleb and Pastor John and Jo and sorta Ellen and did horrible things in Sam's body - I think she'll probably end up being one of my favorite characters too.

also I do hope there's more to Friday's ep than what it looks like, because going from 7.17 to WHEEE FUNNY DRUNK TIMES is just... the episode might be good on its own terms but it is not going to work as an overall arc, really, haha.

[morganlucas41]

Oh, Tumblr. Yeah, I don't really ever go over there, and keep hearing awful things about it! lol.

Yes, a transition scene is exactly what was needed at the end there. It was entirely too rushed and did make Dean appear douchey at first glance, even though I think he made the best decision he could.

I always liked the idea of a "good" demon, but I'm not sure we'll ever get one. Meg, for example, really has done too much to ever truly be redeemed to me. And I'd never really trust her. It's an interesting concept, but I don't know that it would ever actually happen.

Yeah, I'm not looking forward to filler for the next ep, but...maybe it'll be enjoyable anyway :)

[cottontailcake]

Wow… reading this actually makes me feel kinda bad about my hate-on for Meg. From the moment she opened her mouth in Scarecrow I hated her guts. So, erm, thanks for beating me into an open mind? Actually, I’m sure that open mind’s going to fizzle the next time she opens her mouth.

I finally finished that meta (I have had no access to a computer for three days) but I didn’t have much to say about Meg. Except did you notice how she entered? Remind you of The Magnificent Seven (3.01) and Ruby’s entrance at all? It did to me. I’m not sure what to make of that, though.

I don’t have anything to do with Tumblr, and every poke makes me less inclined. I don’t ship Dean/Cas. (Read: I emphatically DO NOT ship Destiel) and I’m completely befuzzled by the idea that that scene could be constructed as Dean manipulating Castiel.

Good demons… an interesting thought. Theoretically, there should be able to be good demons, they’re souls after all. It makes me wonder if there’s something fundamental about the cosmology that means demons must be bad. If a demon was good, would it go to heaven? Would it still be a demon anymore? Dean was in hell and he seems to be headed for heaven.

[morganlucas41]

Oh...I don't really like Meg at all, either, tbh. I don't hate her - I don't really have any strong feelings about her at all.

Well...I thought demons were once human souls, but after a certain amount of time in hell, the souls became demons. I don't think true demons ever go to Heaven. And I don't think Dean ever turned into one completely - he was probably on his way there, but I think he was still human when he got out.

As far as a demon being "good," I don't necessarily mean completely pure, in the sense that they go to Heaven. It does seem like there's something intrinsic about being a demon that would prevent that. But I mean "good" in the sense that they help the boys, work for the "right" goals unselfishly, without their own agenda. Ruby was just playing them all along, Crowley was working for his own self-interest, and Meg's not really done anything to redeem herself. We've seen semi-good monsters, so it would be interesting to see a demon like that, too.

I'm about to go check out your meta! Looking forward to it :)