This is probably the first time I've commented on the issue of women in engineering outside of 1-on-1 conversation. caffeinemonkey's post came at the right time, I guess
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It seems to me that the fact is, dicks or tits have nothing to do with engineering skills.
Maybe there are "predispositions", be them related to upbringing or the way the brain works, but it doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is how good they do the job (or would be able to do the job, when it comes to being accepted into a university).
When a category of people is at a disadvantage, the proper solution is not to give them a handicap (such as a university that would accept a certain number of girls to "improve the situation", pushing out better male candidates), the solution is to find the root cause of their disadvantage and try to fix that.
If it turns out it's some brain structure thing, and that only a few girls have "weird brains" and are able to do good engineering work (I find that theory rather dubious, myself), if that's how it is, then too bad for them, sorry. That said, if there's such a difference, it's quite likely there's stuff most men would have a hard time wrapping their head, but that women could do better...
An interviewer having a preconceived idea that attractive women are more likely that have coasted through school or other such things, that's bad. Beside, it seems to me that there's plenty of incompetent idiots to go around, an interviewer doesn't need to rely on such silly idea to justify himself not hiring someone.
There is likely a whole family of problems at the root of this, not just one, and they won't be solved overnight. But speaking out when we see the kind of (exclusionary and unacceptable) behaviour morethanreal describes would at least be a start.
Certainly, although I was most thinking about the "positive discrimination" aspect that she mentions in the last paragraph, as well as the whole idea of "encouraging" women to go in engineering.
But I certainly agree that this kind of exclusionary behaviour is wrong, and I would certainly speak out against that. Whether women should be encouraged or not to go into engineering is one question, but I think it's pretty clear that they should not be discouraged.
Personally, I have more stories of men than women putting on enough of a show and then flaming out in some way, if only for the reason that there's just not that many women, simple probabilities... Here, it's a sort of permanent entertainment too, because they can't fire them, so they flame on and on and on... :-P
Maybe there are "predispositions", be them related to upbringing or the way the brain works, but it doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is how good they do the job (or would be able to do the job, when it comes to being accepted into a university).
When a category of people is at a disadvantage, the proper solution is not to give them a handicap (such as a university that would accept a certain number of girls to "improve the situation", pushing out better male candidates), the solution is to find the root cause of their disadvantage and try to fix that.
If it turns out it's some brain structure thing, and that only a few girls have "weird brains" and are able to do good engineering work (I find that theory rather dubious, myself), if that's how it is, then too bad for them, sorry. That said, if there's such a difference, it's quite likely there's stuff most men would have a hard time wrapping their head, but that women could do better...
An interviewer having a preconceived idea that attractive women are more likely that have coasted through school or other such things, that's bad. Beside, it seems to me that there's plenty of incompetent idiots to go around, an interviewer doesn't need to rely on such silly idea to justify himself not hiring someone.
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But I certainly agree that this kind of exclusionary behaviour is wrong, and I would certainly speak out against that. Whether women should be encouraged or not to go into engineering is one question, but I think it's pretty clear that they should not be discouraged.
Personally, I have more stories of men than women putting on enough of a show and then flaming out in some way, if only for the reason that there's just not that many women, simple probabilities... Here, it's a sort of permanent entertainment too, because they can't fire them, so they flame on and on and on... :-P
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