He shouldn't be here. It was clear to him; Tim knew, knew that this was a bad idea. The last time he'd pitted himself against Ra's, he'd fought with Dick - literally - and nearly lost. Lost more than just a fight. He had slipped just a little farther from the person he'd been, turning closer to this Tim Drake he didn't like. So it was beyond him to understand why he was here now.
No, that was a lie. He was here because he was intrigued. He was here because this was a different Ra's al Ghul, but one no less dangerous. He was here because Ra's had given him his word that nothing diabolical was at work here; and thought they may be two different people, Tim was certain that small key things held true between their worlds. Ra's would keep his words.
Arriving at the address Ra's had given him, Tim paused at the end of the block, watching. He was early - as always - and had the time to spare, scoping the building out. Outwardly, there was nothing noticeably different. Inside would be another matter, hew knew.
In fact, the moment he walked in, he was accosted by to serious looking men; Tim didn't even need to give his reasons for being there. They recognized him and led him upstairs, flanking him. Tim stood uncomfortably, but it didn't show. This wasn't a time for him to show weakness, of any sort.
Sharp blue eyes took in every corner the turned - though there were not many - and he paused at the door as his guides - guards? - bowed upon entry. Tim didn't bother.
Ra's smiled out the window at the words, turning only when all the men had left them in the room at peace. He offered the smile to Tim, hands folded behind his back as he spoke. "It will do." He answered, walking to a low table and gesturing over.
"Tea? Not quite a cafe mocha or trend setting brew but I'm sure you'll enjoy it nonetheless." He commented as he stepped over. "I have to say I'm surprised you came. Your tone when 'al Ghul' is mentioned is fairly sharp- I imagine you do not have a high opinion of him."
Tim stayed just inside the closed door, watching Ra's and his smile. It wasn't so surprising, really. Their last talk had ended on the al Ghul of Tim's world. Watching the older man move to the table, glancing at the drinks there, Tim walked closer, shrugging lightly.
"I'm sure I'll manage." Though he wasn't sure he'd drink. Food offered by people like Ra's tended to be drugged. Tilting his head to the side, slightly, the Boy Wonder frowned, the barest tilt downward of his mouth. "You really want to talk about him?"
"Normally," Ra's began, taking a seat and pouring himself a cup of the steaming liquid. "I would refrain from it. This man is not me, he has not had my experiences and does not live in the world that I inhabit. He is nothing more than a curiosity, a dangerous one at that. One should not rely on the experiences of a double, that sort of obsession could drive you to madness."
He picked up the cup and gestured for the other to sit. "However I find many with premature opinions of me based on this man, so I believe it would be in my best interest to have an idea of how others view me based on his actions." he glanced over. "I'm sure you understand the idea, though talking about him is not why I called you here today."
Moving slowly to take his seat across from Ra's, legs crossed with his hands on his knees, Tim kept his silence. He didn't want to agree with the other man, but that's exactly what he found himself doing. He agreed with his view on doubles, though he didn't know why; he was far too interested in this Gotham for that to make sense, entirely.
"Good to know." Tim watched Ra's carefully, thoughtfully. "He isn't what I'd call a good man." And I bet you aren't, either. Quirking his mouth to the side, he told himself to slouch a little, sit more like a regular teen would.
"So I gathered." Ra's answered without missing a beat, watching Tim with a faint sort of curiosity. "I also gathered the Wayne of your world had some connection with him, and from you there was a League involved." And Talia, though the name would never leave his lips to Tim willingly. Attachment indeed was a weakness if it could be exploited. Otherwise it was a strength.
"I am curious as to the connection of these two Gothams. Alternate universes? What exactly makes them different, perhaps some forked road somewhere down the line?" He took a drink before placing the cup down. "Fascinating, truly, that Gotham would be so important a place to warrant this duality. However in the end the two worlds should stay as they are - separate."
Tim hesitated, just a moment, before speaking. "I agree." Huge call for hesitation, there. It was a discomfort, knowing their views could align some places, only to differ so vastly elsewhere. "They're different, but inherently the same in some ways." Only some. "And they-" Tim cut himself off. They overlap, but he wasn't entirely sure it was a wise thing to share. Ra's' stake was here. He didn't seem interested in Tim's Gotham, but did he really want to take that risk?
"What else have you gathered?" He was fairly sure this Ra's knew the Bruce-Batman connection, but he wasn't making any dangerous assumptions. And besides that, there was the stretch of Ra's League. His family.
If there was a Damian here Bruce hadn't told him about, Tim was pushing him off a cliff.
Ra's glanced over as the boy cut himself off, a look something like amusement crossing his features. He had expected as much, though the slip was enough to see that Drake was getting more comfortable than he cared for.
"And they?" He asked, moving on regardless. "From the community it seems that the time lines of this particular Gotham are not in sync. Miss Rachel Dawes was around for some time on the network though she was dead here, and Dent seems to have somehow merged into this time line though he was originally from an earlier time." he answered. "It seems that most important figures in or to the city exist in both Gothams, though from the lack of some within this city it leads me to believe your Gotham is more advanced within it's time frame."
A shame he could not discuss such fascinating differences with Bruce- he had always had a sharp mind, inquiring and receptive. The boy though, besides the obvious distrust he seemed clever enough. Best enjoy the chance at discussion while the link still stood. "I have not made much contact with your Gotham. I have no interest in mucking about such a place and possibly throwing off the natural order of events."
"Though the most common theme between both cities is the 'Batman,' isn't it?" He asked idly, deceptively so.
Linking his hands in his lap, Tim listened silently, watching carefully. He believed that Ra's wanted nothing to do with his Gotham, but he didn't want to accidentally hand over any information that would help in the future. So he spoke carefully. "You've done some homework."
These figures did hold true. Except here, there was no Robin.
It was strange to think of. Tim only wore the tights and cape because he was so adamant about Batman needing a Robin. It was necessary to his cause - Robin kept him grounded, stabilized him. Robin helped Batman stay human. And now he was gone. Away. But he'd be back.
He always came back.
"I don't know a Rachel Dawes in my world," he started. Harmless enough. "My Gotham is...farther along." Burning. "Farther than this one, in any case." On fire. Burning to the ground. Why was he here?
"I find it curious that you consider yourself to be one of the most important figures to this city."
"You haven't?" Ra's asked, taking another drink from his tea before continuing. "It is hardly difficult. Back entries from the community, common sense. It is not hard at all to put two and two together."
Of course that led to who Tim Drake was. He looked through records, there was a Drake family, perhaps his own. There was no spectacular activity, no reason Bruce would pick a child of the family up. At least not yet.
The next bit of information surprised him though it only showed in his eyes sliding to Tim. Dawes didn't exist? Strange, if anything many of these figures were ones close to Batman, perhaps it could even be said that Gotham was not the true nucleus of the world's similarities, Bruce was. But how could it be the woman Bruce must have loved did not even exist there? He could see the pain in Bruce's eyes when they last spoke, there was no doubt of that. He placed down his cup. Interesting.
"So I assumed." He said. "Did Bruce lose another love in your world then?" He asked, eyes lifting again at the final question.
An even more interesting inquiry. He did not know of Ra's previous attack on the city, which meant perhaps that the Bruce of this world did not trust the boy. That they decided to keep secrets. A dangerous decision, though sharper than Ra's had expected. Losing faith already Bruce? Perhaps there is hope.
"I see you do not know the history of this city well." He answered in turn. "Or you were not told."
"I never doubted your math skills." Moving his hands to the table, Tim drummed his fingers lightly against the surface. Yes, he'd done his homework. Most of it, anyway. Checked up on things. Looked into others. Avoided his own possible existence here like a plague worse than the Clench. If a Tim Drake existed here, he didn't want to know.
No, that wasn't true.
If a Jack Drake existed here, if a Janet Drake existed here - he didn't want to know. That would hurt worse than knowing Bruce. His parents were dead.
Watching Ra's' eyes, Tim tilted his head slightly, frowning thoughtfully. They all seemed so surprised to find that out. Tim had met her, briefly, and she seemed like a nice woman - but how could so much here possibly hinge on her? That even Ra's would - ah. Tim blanked his face. "I don't think that's any concern of yours." God, who hadn't he lost? Vesper spraing to mind immediately; Bruce had been framed for her murder. But then there was the long list of women Bruce had been involved with and lost in some way or another. Silver, Sasha, Selina, Talia, Jezebel - Tim hated al Ghul's daughter, but he hated a Jezebel Jet far more. It'd be a lie to say he wasn't glad Talia had killed her.
Eyebrows arching, Tim watched Ra's silently, keeping the frown off his face. Bruce had kept mum on the subject of Ra's. Why? "What did you do this time?" He asked coolly.
Ra's chuckled, placing his cup down on the table with a small thud of the ceramic against wood. "So he has then, if your defensive answer is any indication." he said, trying to read the boy's face. "Was it this 'Joker' who did it as well? Surely he exists within your Gotham." He was in some ways the natural result of the Batman's creation, wasn't he? The face of crime forced to evolve to survive. If only Bruce could truly see what he had done- no, if only he could accept it.
The next comment was expected, yes the Ra's of that world must have done a great deal, or one unforgivable action. "Perhaps you should ask Bruce." Ra's answered. "It isn't something you will find in the papers or upon normal detective work. Most of what truly happened in this city- the Batman, the events of this 'Joker' and the word of the new Commissioner- all lies. Tell me, how can a city that clings so desperately to lies for survival ever hope to recover?"
"He exists. But he's nothing like the Joker here." Tim still had nightmares, sometimes, where he faced himself and peeled away his skin to reveal something pasty white and smiling. They'd started the night before his mother's funeral, and never quite stopped. Tim's shoulders stiffened almost imperceptibly. "His plots don't lie in playboys' love interests."
"Maybe I should, but I'm asking you." Questions were the bigger part of detective work, after all. And he wasn't going to tell Ra's that he'd already asked. "Lies eventually unravel. If Bruce thinks this is the best course of action for the city, then it probably is." His jaw was clenched through saying that, still angry at Bruce's recent actions. Still angry at Bruce, and that rubbed him the wrong way. "Batman wasn't welcome in my Gotham at first, either. Now, it-" It's falling apart without him. "It needs him."
"Nothing?" Ra's questioned. He found that unlikely. Greatly different perhaps, but the way the boy's shoulder seemed to stiffen- perhaps just a trick of the eye- said they held the same sort of skill in fear. Ra's had never found clowns anything more than irritations. "Neither did this one's plots, yet the effects were quite far reaching."
"Then ask Drake." Ra's said, staring the boy down. "I will not tell you anything that could harm me in the long run but I will not lie, it does not suit me to." He paused. Best course of action. He nearly smiled. "One man cannot save what this city has become. He is not welcomed, they blame him for Dent's death, for the deaths of others he did not touch directly. If this lie were to unravel the city would lose hope." he offered a shrug. "He will never be welcomed, he will always fight the thing he seeks so desperately to protect."
His eyes rose again. "Needs him you say?" He mused. "How long has he been fighting for your Gotham?"
He didn't feel the need to address the Jokers. Not when he was more concerned with memories of one that would be with him till he died. He didn't want the know what this Joker would be capable of in a decade.
Tim went very still, sharp blue eyes settling on Ra's. "Ask who?" He didn't - he couldn't know a - there was no way Tim could have a counterpart here that wasn't - what, a toddler? He couldn't mean his father. Couldn't mean....he couldn't know he was - Tim could not know his father was alive here. Couldn't think that it was his father, couldn't -
Clenching his jaw, gritting his teeth, Tim reached out, pouring tea into his cup. He didn't drink, just held his hand around the mug tightly, feeling it burn against his palm. His dad was dead. Whatever Drake lived here wasn't him. Letting out a slow breath, Tim blanked his face. "Batman's been called a murderer before. It never sticks. And they welcome him eventually." Just give it time, Ra's. All they needed was time. It was all they ever needed.
Running his free hand through his hair, Tim lifted the cup to take a small sip, thinking. When he set it down again, the Boy Wonder settled his gaze on Ra's' face. "Most of my life. More than a decade." Decade and a half, maybe. Maybe closer to two. "Yes, Gotham needs him."
Ra's brow lifted at the response, sitting back as he thought. "You lost your family didn't you?" he asked, neither condescendingly or cruelly. Why else did they fight? If he fought to protect then he knew lose. Just like Bruce. Just like-
He watched the boy's actions, almost distractedly though he was never truly distracted. "He killed their hero Tim. A murder the city could forgive, but to lose who they believed would save them is another matter. If he tells the truth they will lose hope. If he doesn't he will never fully gain their trust again." Ra's caught his gaze sternly. "That is the world he created for himself. He never could do what was necessary. If he had killed this mad man when the chance had occurred Gotham may have stood a fighting chance. Now-" he glanced out the window. Gotham was soon to fall.
"A decade. Then I was correct." He glanced back to Tim, brow lifting. "Do you like it?" he asked of the tea, despite the heavy words.
No, that was a lie. He was here because he was intrigued. He was here because this was a different Ra's al Ghul, but one no less dangerous. He was here because Ra's had given him his word that nothing diabolical was at work here; and thought they may be two different people, Tim was certain that small key things held true between their worlds. Ra's would keep his words.
Arriving at the address Ra's had given him, Tim paused at the end of the block, watching. He was early - as always - and had the time to spare, scoping the building out. Outwardly, there was nothing noticeably different. Inside would be another matter, hew knew.
In fact, the moment he walked in, he was accosted by to serious looking men; Tim didn't even need to give his reasons for being there. They recognized him and led him upstairs, flanking him. Tim stood uncomfortably, but it didn't show. This wasn't a time for him to show weakness, of any sort.
Sharp blue eyes took in every corner the turned - though there were not many - and he paused at the door as his guides - guards? - bowed upon entry. Tim didn't bother.
"Early enough for you?"
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"Tea? Not quite a cafe mocha or trend setting brew but I'm sure you'll enjoy it nonetheless." He commented as he stepped over. "I have to say I'm surprised you came. Your tone when 'al Ghul' is mentioned is fairly sharp- I imagine you do not have a high opinion of him."
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"I'm sure I'll manage." Though he wasn't sure he'd drink. Food offered by people like Ra's tended to be drugged. Tilting his head to the side, slightly, the Boy Wonder frowned, the barest tilt downward of his mouth. "You really want to talk about him?"
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He picked up the cup and gestured for the other to sit. "However I find many with premature opinions of me based on this man, so I believe it would be in my best interest to have an idea of how others view me based on his actions." he glanced over. "I'm sure you understand the idea, though talking about him is not why I called you here today."
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"Good to know." Tim watched Ra's carefully, thoughtfully. "He isn't what I'd call a good man." And I bet you aren't, either. Quirking his mouth to the side, he told himself to slouch a little, sit more like a regular teen would.
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"I am curious as to the connection of these two Gothams. Alternate universes? What exactly makes them different, perhaps some forked road somewhere down the line?" He took a drink before placing the cup down. "Fascinating, truly, that Gotham would be so important a place to warrant this duality. However in the end the two worlds should stay as they are - separate."
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"What else have you gathered?" He was fairly sure this Ra's knew the Bruce-Batman connection, but he wasn't making any dangerous assumptions. And besides that, there was the stretch of Ra's League. His family.
If there was a Damian here Bruce hadn't told him about, Tim was pushing him off a cliff.
Metaphorically speaking, of course.
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"And they?" He asked, moving on regardless. "From the community it seems that the time lines of this particular Gotham are not in sync. Miss Rachel Dawes was around for some time on the network though she was dead here, and Dent seems to have somehow merged into this time line though he was originally from an earlier time." he answered. "It seems that most important figures in or to the city exist in both Gothams, though from the lack of some within this city it leads me to believe your Gotham is more advanced within it's time frame."
A shame he could not discuss such fascinating differences with Bruce- he had always had a sharp mind, inquiring and receptive. The boy though, besides the obvious distrust he seemed clever enough. Best enjoy the chance at discussion while the link still stood. "I have not made much contact with your Gotham. I have no interest in mucking about such a place and possibly throwing off the natural order of events."
"Though the most common theme between both cities is the 'Batman,' isn't it?" He asked idly, deceptively so.
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These figures did hold true. Except here, there was no Robin.
It was strange to think of. Tim only wore the tights and cape because he was so adamant about Batman needing a Robin. It was necessary to his cause - Robin kept him grounded, stabilized him. Robin helped Batman stay human. And now he was gone. Away. But he'd be back.
He always came back.
"I don't know a Rachel Dawes in my world," he started. Harmless enough. "My Gotham is...farther along." Burning. "Farther than this one, in any case." On fire. Burning to the ground. Why was he here?
"I find it curious that you consider yourself to be one of the most important figures to this city."
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Of course that led to who Tim Drake was. He looked through records, there was a Drake family, perhaps his own. There was no spectacular activity, no reason Bruce would pick a child of the family up. At least not yet.
The next bit of information surprised him though it only showed in his eyes sliding to Tim. Dawes didn't exist? Strange, if anything many of these figures were ones close to Batman, perhaps it could even be said that Gotham was not the true nucleus of the world's similarities, Bruce was. But how could it be the woman Bruce must have loved did not even exist there? He could see the pain in Bruce's eyes when they last spoke, there was no doubt of that. He placed down his cup. Interesting.
"So I assumed." He said. "Did Bruce lose another love in your world then?" He asked, eyes lifting again at the final question.
An even more interesting inquiry. He did not know of Ra's previous attack on the city, which meant perhaps that the Bruce of this world did not trust the boy. That they decided to keep secrets. A dangerous decision, though sharper than Ra's had expected. Losing faith already Bruce? Perhaps there is hope.
"I see you do not know the history of this city well." He answered in turn. "Or you were not told."
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No, that wasn't true.
If a Jack Drake existed here, if a Janet Drake existed here - he didn't want to know. That would hurt worse than knowing Bruce. His parents were dead.
Watching Ra's' eyes, Tim tilted his head slightly, frowning thoughtfully. They all seemed so surprised to find that out. Tim had met her, briefly, and she seemed like a nice woman - but how could so much here possibly hinge on her? That even Ra's would - ah. Tim blanked his face. "I don't think that's any concern of yours." God, who hadn't he lost? Vesper spraing to mind immediately; Bruce had been framed for her murder. But then there was the long list of women Bruce had been involved with and lost in some way or another. Silver, Sasha, Selina, Talia, Jezebel - Tim hated al Ghul's daughter, but he hated a Jezebel Jet far more. It'd be a lie to say he wasn't glad Talia had killed her.
Eyebrows arching, Tim watched Ra's silently, keeping the frown off his face. Bruce had kept mum on the subject of Ra's. Why? "What did you do this time?" He asked coolly.
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The next comment was expected, yes the Ra's of that world must have done a great deal, or one unforgivable action. "Perhaps you should ask Bruce." Ra's answered. "It isn't something you will find in the papers or upon normal detective work. Most of what truly happened in this city- the Batman, the events of this 'Joker' and the word of the new Commissioner- all lies. Tell me, how can a city that clings so desperately to lies for survival ever hope to recover?"
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"Maybe I should, but I'm asking you." Questions were the bigger part of detective work, after all. And he wasn't going to tell Ra's that he'd already asked. "Lies eventually unravel. If Bruce thinks this is the best course of action for the city, then it probably is." His jaw was clenched through saying that, still angry at Bruce's recent actions. Still angry at Bruce, and that rubbed him the wrong way. "Batman wasn't welcome in my Gotham at first, either. Now, it-" It's falling apart without him. "It needs him."
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"Then ask Drake." Ra's said, staring the boy down. "I will not tell you anything that could harm me in the long run but I will not lie, it does not suit me to." He paused. Best course of action. He nearly smiled. "One man cannot save what this city has become. He is not welcomed, they blame him for Dent's death, for the deaths of others he did not touch directly. If this lie were to unravel the city would lose hope." he offered a shrug. "He will never be welcomed, he will always fight the thing he seeks so desperately to protect."
His eyes rose again. "Needs him you say?" He mused. "How long has he been fighting for your Gotham?"
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Tim went very still, sharp blue eyes settling on Ra's. "Ask who?" He didn't - he couldn't know a - there was no way Tim could have a counterpart here that wasn't - what, a toddler? He couldn't mean his father. Couldn't mean....he couldn't know he was - Tim could not know his father was alive here. Couldn't think that it was his father, couldn't -
Clenching his jaw, gritting his teeth, Tim reached out, pouring tea into his cup. He didn't drink, just held his hand around the mug tightly, feeling it burn against his palm. His dad was dead. Whatever Drake lived here wasn't him. Letting out a slow breath, Tim blanked his face. "Batman's been called a murderer before. It never sticks. And they welcome him eventually." Just give it time, Ra's. All they needed was time. It was all they ever needed.
Running his free hand through his hair, Tim lifted the cup to take a small sip, thinking. When he set it down again, the Boy Wonder settled his gaze on Ra's' face. "Most of my life. More than a decade." Decade and a half, maybe. Maybe closer to two. "Yes, Gotham needs him."
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He watched the boy's actions, almost distractedly though he was never truly distracted. "He killed their hero Tim. A murder the city could forgive, but to lose who they believed would save them is another matter. If he tells the truth they will lose hope. If he doesn't he will never fully gain their trust again." Ra's caught his gaze sternly. "That is the world he created for himself. He never could do what was necessary. If he had killed this mad man when the chance had occurred Gotham may have stood a fighting chance. Now-" he glanced out the window. Gotham was soon to fall.
"A decade. Then I was correct." He glanced back to Tim, brow lifting. "Do you like it?" he asked of the tea, despite the heavy words.
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