DON’T SHOOT ME! I HAD TO DO IT! AND IT’S LONG!! SPOILERS FOR SERIES 3!

[mopphead]

I originally posted this on 1st July, but then messed up the cut and did all manner of thick things, so I pulled it, sorted it out and - here it is again! It's very long - sorry - but I'm too dumb to be able to split it into sections. It's mainly a character study of Guy, but with a bit of Izzy chucked in for good measure.

Comments

[applebeing]

Mmm, catharsis. I've got to ramble on about this at some point, too - it is the only way.

Re: the time Issy flees her marriage, I wonder if there was a child, for whom she stayed as protector, until he/she fell prey to one of many untreatable childhood diseases. Once the child is dead, Thorton grows desperate for a new heir, and she cannot stand to have him anywhere near her, so she runs. She may be close to being unhinged by grief anyway, and it is Bobbin's rejection that tips the balance over into stark-raving crazy.

Re: Guy's admission of guilt over Marian's death, I don't think he does that fully in ep 9. To me, and given Meg's reaction, "I destroyed her" comes over more as "I took her maidenhead, got her with child outside of wedlock, ruining her" with the possible addition of "so she, reputation in tatters, went and drowned herself". Love Guy as I do, I think if I hadn't known he'd skewered his former betrothed, I'd have at least flinched a little if I thought he was confessing to murder-by-pointy-sword at that moment. It's when he tells Hood he can't ask for forgiveness as he'll never be able to forgive himself that I think the true, uncloaked acceptance comes.

I have no idea what this show's code of ethics must look like. It's far more skewed than Guy's for sure. Do as your conscience tells you, in the face of likely death or humiliation, and suffer for it - but only if you're Guy, of course.

Expect me to comment more on this later, as an epic post deserves an epic response, and venting is called for.

[mopphead]

That's a really good point about a possibly croaked child - it would explain the timing of her up and running and the ease with which Izzy tips into crazy-lady mode.
I agree and disagree with the accepting responsibility for Marian's death. You're quite right - (shame on me, I'd forgotten this bit!) full acknowledgement doesn't come until he tells Bobbin that he can't forgive himself but I think there's also an element there of actually being able to admit to and voice to another his innermost feelings, which has been something he's always had trouble with.
The phrase to Meg about destroying Marian I read differently, possibly because of the broken way in which RA delivered it. I thought it came across as something stronger than an admission of murder, although encompassing that also - it included all the times he'd hurt her or her father and all the times that by only seeing what he'd wanted to see, he'd made her uncomfortable and unhappy.
Erm - when you speak of venting, am I going to have to duck?

[leslieg]

Oh, yes, the kiddie dying theory is fic gold!!! Someone go for it! (Not me, too busy working on my 2x13 denial fic, after I finish Tears. Sweetie John is feeling sooo abandonded!)

[applebeing]

Sweetie John is feeling sooo abandonded!

*volunteers selflessly to look after him for you*

[mopphead]

Ooh, I love that fic - will there be more soon? And another in the pipeline? No pressure or anything. Maybe I can help applebeing so that you don't have to worry about John at all, then you can devote yourself to your art!

[leslieg]

I'm working on Part Three of Tears, I've been working on a Guy/Maz fic since the end of series two, and Sweetie John is in the midst of dealing with his Gran dying of lung cancer in one fic, and trying to get Carol pregnant in another. Plus I've another naughty ficlet in the works. ***Cuddles Sweetie John fiercely, 'cos' he always needs cuddles!***

[junec]

Your assessment of the series was masterly. It has only just occurred to me, having read the comments about early marriage expectations in Norman England. If Rodger had come back healthy to his family, when it came time for him to find a husband of advantage for Isabella - would Bobbin have been in the running?

Apart from the dodgy scripts and preachifying speeches the thing that really irritated me with this series was the lack of continuity. You have Guy fleeing the castle carrying Meg and Meg dying - end of episode. Beginning of next episode Guy in forrest has suddenly now got both a bow and arrow and his sword? At the end of that episode Guy and Robin set off to go to York, Guy helps Robin up then walks off - no weapons. Beginning of next episode not only has Guy got his weapons back he has also got back his fancy jacket (which presumably he left in the Nottingham dungeon as he didn't have it on the scaffold)!! I can just see him popping back and saying 'please Izzy can I ave me coat back'!

[mopphead]

Thank you for saying that! Good grief, imagine the psycho that Izzy would have become if forced into marriage with Bobbin!! Mind you, would she have had to beat Marian in a catfight first? It's a good point, though, because they seemed about the same age and it would have given the Gizzies a bit of a leg up in their social standing. I think she'd have put up with him for a week, then packed him off to the Holy Land, having bribed a sailor to chuck him overboard.

The continuity bod on the set was obviously either blind/drunk/blind drunk or on holiday...either that, or he/she was given the sack in episode 1 and nobody thought to drum up a replacement. The business with the whole sword, no sword, oh look sword again was bad beyond belief. I'm surprised that RA didn't notice the conspicuous lack of a scabbard bashing his leg!

As for getting his stuff back, my theory is that Guy goes to Lamp Post, then through the Wardrobe where he gathers weapons and coat. He then returns to the forest, dodging a mysteriously mangy Aslan on the way...

[leslieg]

I think, by e 9/10/11, some scenes of which, from the foliage, look to have been filmed after 12/13, poor RA probably gave up on fretting about the continuity. Guy was dead, and, if the people whose job it actually was couldn't be bothered, why should he flog a dead horse?

[mopphead]

With back to back filming with Spooks,coupled with out of sequence shooting on RH,he probably didn't know if he was on his arse or his elbow, poor love!
I think he could sum it up quite eloquently with that wonderful shrug he gave Bobbin in episode 10 just before they're about to fight -
Director: 'Shall we just film that again, Richard love? This time without the sword?'
RA: (*Thinks* Bloody hell, how many more times?!) 'Why not?' (shrugs expressively).

[applebeing]

Director: 'Shall we just film that again, Richard love? This time without the sword?'

RA: (*Thinks* Bloody hell, how many more times?!) 'Why not?' (shrugs expressively).

See, if I were director, it'd be...

Directrix: "Shall we just film that again, Richard love? This time without the shirt?"

RA: (*Thinks* Bloody hell, how many more times?! Is this sexual harassment?) 'Why not?' (shrugs jacket off expressively).

[mopphead]

Ooh,yes,please!! Could I be your continuity bod? I'd have to watch VERY closely...

[applebeing]

But of course. You can make sure every trace of his Lucas tattoos have been cleaned off to start with, if you like...

[mopphead]

Cor! I wonder what the ink tastes like?!!

[applebeing]

That's a really good point about a possibly croaked child...

It would sure as hell made her a more sympathetic character, but they don't seem all that fond of those round Nottingham way.

You're right that RA was thinking of all of that and probably more beside (maybe even Issy?) in that delivery, and, knowing all we know, 'destroyed' was a powerful choice of word. He probably meant to hide nothing with it, but it is ambiguous. (I want commentaries, damnit!)

Erm - when you speak of venting, am I going to have to duck?

Course not, unless you're secretly working for TPTB?

[mopphead]

Nope, I'm just undercover with Lucas North. Mmm - split that undercover word in two and it takes on a whole new meaning...