For me, V/K and F/V/K spring from the same place: a desire for the boys to realize who they are, what they want, and the sort of fairytale happy ending(s) we used to believe in when we were innocents.
V/K is almost a no-brainer: these two guys are presented as polar opposites, but deep down, they are the same. They both became police officers partly due to their relationships with significant people in their lives (Vecchio and his dad; Kowalski and Stella). They both had choppy beginnings as officers (Kowalski's shown in 'The Ladies' Man, Vecchio's in 'The Duel') and as detectives had roadblocks to discovering who they were in those roles (Vecchio's Armani fixation and Kowalski's penchant for undercover) which actually worked against that goal in many ways. It isn't until they meet Fraser that they start to evolve into their own (Vecchio actually living/playing the Armani lifestyle while undercover, Kowalski pretending to be Vecchio but finding himself in that persona). They fell in love with the same woman, they fell in love
( ... )
No, not really. I like good angst and can appreciate the fics that are darker or without happy endings, but fics where the Rays pair up and stay together only to get over Stella or Fraser (though as a device to get them together, I am all for it) and feel lucky they have anyone in their lives works against their self development, which to me is a big part of how I see them.
I think the OT3 ones in that theme may spring out of Fraser's quirks and seeing him as the odd one out: RayV always felt he 'owed' Fraser, for the shooting, for his friendship, what have you, but I think RayV might simply have had his first adult, reciprocal relationship, and that feeling of 'owing' Fraser was actually RayV being willing to do anything for someone who was, for once, not a family member. Adding Fraser to an existing Ray/Ray dynamic for reasons akin to 'I owe him' or pity does not make sense to me and I think that is simplest reason F/V/K fics of that bleak tone just fail.
F/K/V: a threesome based on love that I can believe in, contrary to most of these fandom trios.
These three have deep emotions and tangled histories, and I love it when an author makes me feel like the story could be future canon, or a closely related alternate reality.
Eeeeee! The prospect of iconage fills me with glee!
R/R -- I don't see this as a fairytale at all. Quite the reverse, actually. Fraser is the fairytale character, the fable. Ray/Ray is what happens afterwards, the redemption story. Two guys finding themselves and each other, and the reality of daily life and common ground, and not ever taking each other for granted. Unexpected second chances. Surprise. Commitment and dedication and heat.
F/K/V -- For me, I usually need this to spring from Ray/Ray, because I want each side of the triangle to be solid and reliable and tested. Once they have that foundation, I think they're unbreakable! ♥
I love the generosity of this threesome, that they can be there for each other, let go of their egos and be secure enough in their relationship(s) that they don't feel left out or third-wheel-ish. There's a huge amount of giving and receiving. So much love! And they ALL get to be happy!!!
the number of comments are left will be the number of R/R and F/K/V icons in my next post.So if I leave a
( ... )
So if I leave a hundred comments...? /sneaky Haha, maybe if you get a hundred people to leave comments....and of course you can pimp this. I need as much help as I can get.
I see both your and dragonflymuse's point, cuz I see it as two sides of the same coin.
Two guys finding themselves and each other, and the reality of daily life and common ground, and not ever taking each other for granted. Unexpected second chances. Yes, I see it as that too, but the startling rightness of it so sort of a legendary beast-a plain, consistantly happy life that is its own unlikely happy ending.
Ok, here's a question for you: You and brooklinegirl are my goddesses of F/K/V. What is your favourite line or bit of dialogue from your threesome fic?
What is your favourite line or bit of dialogue from your threesome fic?
Oh, tough question. Today it's this, from The Morning After:
They sat down on a nearby park bench overlooking the fountain. Little kids were shrieking with laughter. Ray watched them, and felt kind of relieved they weren't his. Which reminded him-- "Hey, did I tell you Jamieson gave me two tickets to the Hawks game Saturday? You wanna go?"
Vecchio grinned around a mouthful of hotdog (no mustard on him, no way) and leaned back on the bench. "Nah," he said, once he'd swallowed. "I got better things to do. Why don't you take your other boyfriend. You know, the one who likes hockey."
Ray blinked, and felt a slow smile spread across his face. "Your loss," he told Vecchio.
Vecchio winked at him, and spread his legs further apart so their knees bumped, and Ray that thought this summer was maybe going to be the best ever.I really like the idea that the threesome gives them more freedom -- to play to their strengths, to take turns looking after each other, to share
( ... )
Oh, and at the risk of spamming your comments (sorry!), this discussion made me go looking for this post, in which (amongst other things) mergatrude asked me what would make Ray/Ray work, and I said
( ... )
I'm piecing together my own thoughts on this, but do you mind if I pimp it over at ds_raysquared (which you are more than welcome to join if that's your thing)? Because we're all about this exact thing. :)
Sorry if you're feeling overwhelmed. *embarrassed grin* We're just EXCITED (honestly, this post and comments made my day yesterday). And the awesome thing about dS fandom is that the rockstars are totally cool with talking to the rest of us mortals. :) Please do consider joining ds_raysquared if you're interested in Ray/Ray and/or F/K/V--we'd love to have you! And you can cross-post your icons there, too. *g*
Regardless, thanks for starting such a wonderful discussion!
That says it all, for me. I like the humor in this coupling, and I like the testosterone-drive, hot, hot sex that these two would have.
Also, RayK would sometimes be a little embarrassed to admit how he likes how gallant and attentive Ray is, but he knows a good thing when he gets it. And RayV appreciates how RayK gets him and knows when to back off and when to push things. Also, he understands how important his family is and moreover, they love RayK like hes a Vecchio.
To me, Ray/Ray and FKV are both the struggle to get up again after being knocked down over and over. For the Rays, it's the best defense is a good offense. For Fraser, it's the assumption that unrequited love is the best he can hope for -- until a Ray knocks him sideways by giving Fraser a chance. And then, with permission to want, Fraser goes for it like crazy. (Or like a crazy Mountie. :P)
And I thought of something else. You know the whole "ray of sunshine" pun. But it's like a theme. Ray Vecchio is the bright light coming into Fraser's life in S1-2. Vecchio gives Fraser's life direction and purpose. And then by the end of S2, they've drawn apart enough that Fraser doesn't need Vecchio in that role anymore.
Then when we meet Kowalski, Fraser turns out to be the bolt of bright light showing us all the crappy parts of RayK's life and helping make them better. Trouble is by the end of COTW, RayK isn't at the same level of independence as Vecchio was (which makes sense, given that Vecchio was being groomed by the FBI to go away).
Then with the Rays together...that's a future Ray who has had his adventure and reached the independence point. Then they're the only two Chicago cops who can view the world through Fraser-colored lenses...and they're both marked by the Fraser experience. It magnetizes them, whether they like it or not. Mmmmm -- magnetic!
*nods so vehemently that I look like a bobblehead* YES. YES YES YES. I don't quite agree about F/V at the end of S2 (I think they're separated by circumstance rather than by internal things) but everything else, YES YES YES YES.
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V/K is almost a no-brainer: these two guys are presented as polar opposites, but deep down, they are the same. They both became police officers partly due to their relationships with significant people in their lives (Vecchio and his dad; Kowalski and Stella). They both had choppy beginnings as officers (Kowalski's shown in 'The Ladies' Man, Vecchio's in 'The Duel') and as detectives had roadblocks to discovering who they were in those roles (Vecchio's Armani fixation and Kowalski's penchant for undercover) which actually worked against that goal in many ways. It isn't until they meet Fraser that they start to evolve into their own (Vecchio actually living/playing the Armani lifestyle while undercover, Kowalski pretending to be Vecchio but finding himself in that persona). They fell in love with the same woman, they fell in love ( ... )
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What do you make of the "this is the best we'll get" tone from some of the stories out there? Does that fly with you?
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I think the OT3 ones in that theme may spring out of Fraser's quirks and seeing him as the odd one out: RayV always felt he 'owed' Fraser, for the shooting, for his friendship, what have you, but I think RayV might simply have had his first adult, reciprocal relationship, and that feeling of 'owing' Fraser was actually RayV being willing to do anything for someone who was, for once, not a family member. Adding Fraser to an existing Ray/Ray dynamic for reasons akin to 'I owe him' or pity does not make sense to me and I think that is simplest reason F/V/K fics of that bleak tone just fail.
Reply
These three have deep emotions and tangled histories, and I love it when an author makes me feel like the story could be future canon, or a closely related alternate reality.
Reply
R/R -- I don't see this as a fairytale at all. Quite the reverse, actually. Fraser is the fairytale character, the fable. Ray/Ray is what happens afterwards, the redemption story. Two guys finding themselves and each other, and the reality of daily life and common ground, and not ever taking each other for granted. Unexpected second chances. Surprise. Commitment and dedication and heat.
F/K/V -- For me, I usually need this to spring from Ray/Ray, because I want each side of the triangle to be solid and reliable and tested. Once they have that foundation, I think they're unbreakable! ♥
I love the generosity of this threesome, that they can be there for each other, let go of their egos and be secure enough in their relationship(s) that they don't feel left out or third-wheel-ish. There's a huge amount of giving and receiving. So much love! And they ALL get to be happy!!!
the number of comments are left will be the number of R/R and F/K/V icons in my next post.So if I leave a ( ... )
Reply
Haha, maybe if you get a hundred people to leave comments....and of course you can pimp this. I need as much help as I can get.
I see both your and dragonflymuse's point, cuz I see it as two sides of the same coin.
Two guys finding themselves and each other, and the reality of daily life and common ground, and not ever taking each other for granted. Unexpected second chances.
Yes, I see it as that too, but the startling rightness of it so sort of a legendary beast-a plain, consistantly happy life that is its own unlikely happy ending.
Ok, here's a question for you: You and brooklinegirl are my goddesses of F/K/V. What is your favourite line or bit of dialogue from your threesome fic?
Reply
Oh, tough question. Today it's this, from The Morning After:
They sat down on a nearby park bench overlooking the fountain. Little kids were shrieking with laughter. Ray watched them, and felt kind of relieved they weren't his. Which reminded him-- "Hey, did I tell you Jamieson gave me two tickets to the Hawks game Saturday? You wanna go?"
Vecchio grinned around a mouthful of hotdog (no mustard on him, no way) and leaned back on the bench. "Nah," he said, once he'd swallowed. "I got better things to do. Why don't you take your other boyfriend. You know, the one who likes hockey."
Ray blinked, and felt a slow smile spread across his face. "Your loss," he told Vecchio.
Vecchio winked at him, and spread his legs further apart so their knees bumped, and Ray that thought this summer was maybe going to be the best ever.I really like the idea that the threesome gives them more freedom -- to play to their strengths, to take turns looking after each other, to share ( ... )
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And plus side, more icons yey!
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Regardless, thanks for starting such a wonderful discussion!
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(I bet Hugh would agree.)
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That says it all, for me. I like the humor in this coupling, and I like the testosterone-drive, hot, hot sex that these two would have.
Also, RayK would sometimes be a little embarrassed to admit how he likes how gallant and attentive Ray is, but he knows a good thing when he gets it. And RayV appreciates how RayK gets him and knows when to back off and when to push things. Also, he understands how important his family is and moreover, they love RayK like hes a Vecchio.
Reply
To me, Ray/Ray and FKV are both the struggle to get up again after being knocked down over and over. For the Rays, it's the best defense is a good offense. For Fraser, it's the assumption that unrequited love is the best he can hope for -- until a Ray knocks him sideways by giving Fraser a chance. And then, with permission to want, Fraser goes for it like crazy. (Or like a crazy Mountie. :P)
Reply
Then when we meet Kowalski, Fraser turns out to be the bolt of bright light showing us all the crappy parts of RayK's life and helping make them better. Trouble is by the end of COTW, RayK isn't at the same level of independence as Vecchio was (which makes sense, given that Vecchio was being groomed by the FBI to go away).
Then with the Rays together...that's a future Ray who has had his adventure and reached the independence point. Then they're the only two Chicago cops who can view the world through Fraser-colored lenses...and they're both marked by the Fraser experience. It magnetizes them, whether they like it or not. Mmmmm -- magnetic!
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