(no subject)
So this pile of fail... I got it via karnythia and also foc_cabal. It's the wrong kind of special.
"...This is about the totally valid and justified complaints of white editors that writers of color and women aren't submitting enough work to them."
How dare they.
"...Start reading slush for a major publisher or journal and you'll notice a sudden, steep drop in the percentages of women, and an even steeper drop in the percentages of poc submitting work. And look at what is actually published and you'll see the drop is even steeper: mostly men, mostly white."
Hmm, do you think this might have something to do with the above? Maybe perhaps? Maybe there's a reason that it still benefits women authors to write as men? That even being a man isn't enough if someone THINKS you're a woman? That shit goes down when authors of color who are identified as authors of color try to write and publish anything outside of the approved Ethnic Fiction ghetto?
"Those who read slush know will tell you that the submissions from women and poc are often disproportionately sucky, which is sometimes why even the proportions of women and poc who submit aren't reflected in the proportions of women and poc actually published... So when a white male editor says, "We only had one woman and one poc in the anthology because we were going for the best work," that could be true, or true-ish."
No comment.
"We're still working with more women (and a larger percentage of poc) attending writing classes, but more men and white writers actually submitting work. How radical your discrepancy is, like I said, varies, but the discrepancy exists."
"...that chasm comes between writers developing their craft in the bosom of their communities, and writers taking a leap away from their local identity communities into the ether of the mainstream -- basically at the point where writers have to take a deep breath and submit their work to mainstream editors who don't know them and aren't familiar with the communities they come from...MOST WOMEN AND POC WRITERS FAIL TO MAKE THAT LEAP."
Data, motherfucker, do you have it? Because making broad, sweeping claims as to how objective and overall reality is (as opposed to what your own observed experience is, which can be and often is a very very different thing depending on who and where you are)is complete bullshit unless you can back up your claims with hard data. If you can't, sit down and shut up and don't claim to speak of objective reality when what you have is subjective experience.
"I can't tell you how many writers I've encouraged to submit their work who had never done it before because it simply never occurred to them. They never signed up for a writers list-serv. They don't read lit blogs that post opportunities on them. They don't know about Writers Market or the Poets & Writers database. They don't know that you can (and sort of have to) look the various markets up and note down their guidelines and simply submit work according to the guidelines."
Hint: THIS SHIT IS NOT TAUGHT IN SCHOOL. No, really, it isn't - or at least not in every school. Not in any public school that I ever attended or heard of second-hand. Not unless you're going to school for writing specifically. Not until the college level. Not even universally at the college level. You have to go out and dig for this information unless you are already connected to the insider's club somehow - and before anyone hops on my case about it being readily available online or any any library and 'omgwtf why didn't they just conduct bootstrap levitation? Here are Exty examples of folks who did!' - just shove it. I will not be addressing that bullshit today. Some background on that for the interested.
Also, I know that's it's an unnumbered Rule Of The Internet that you don't read the comments because they usually just bring the pain... but so many of the comments here are in the order of BITCH, NO that I read and enjoyed and felt better about the world. Including the very first one:
"I must say I was surprised to read this. I read a lot of slush and I have not shared your experience in the least." Posted by: Lauren P. Burka
And a bunch of others:
"I've edited 11 anthologies, published at least one story that wound up in Best American Short Stories, and I have not shared your experience of the slush pile." Posted by: Jay Lake
"It's not my experience, but then again, I'm not the one who made the claim that my experience was the experience of all slush readers." Posted by: Rachel Swirsky
"This has not been my experience as a slush reader" Posted by: molly
"Some of us don't necessarily value the literary venues and publishers you're talking about more than those lowly "ethnic" journals and publishers." Posted by: Lauren Wheeler
...side observation:
"...Every step in the long, slow process of literary accomplishment (looks like this: community writing classes, MFA courses, community readings, ethnic magazines, indy publishers, mainstream lit magazines, major publishers..."
Oh does it? Well shit, I guess I R doin' it rong what with my never having taken a class about writing at the community level, much less the MFA, not attending community readings, and never having posted in ethnic magazines... I guess I'll just pack up my short story publications with Circlet Press and go back to school like a good little arts scholar as there is one and exactly one path to follow.
ETA: She's apparantly also the author of "Can We NOT Do Racefail Again, Please?" and also a whole lot of other bullshit.
"...This is about the totally valid and justified complaints of white editors that writers of color and women aren't submitting enough work to them."
How dare they.
"...Start reading slush for a major publisher or journal and you'll notice a sudden, steep drop in the percentages of women, and an even steeper drop in the percentages of poc submitting work. And look at what is actually published and you'll see the drop is even steeper: mostly men, mostly white."
Hmm, do you think this might have something to do with the above? Maybe perhaps? Maybe there's a reason that it still benefits women authors to write as men? That even being a man isn't enough if someone THINKS you're a woman? That shit goes down when authors of color who are identified as authors of color try to write and publish anything outside of the approved Ethnic Fiction ghetto?
"Those who read slush know will tell you that the submissions from women and poc are often disproportionately sucky, which is sometimes why even the proportions of women and poc who submit aren't reflected in the proportions of women and poc actually published... So when a white male editor says, "We only had one woman and one poc in the anthology because we were going for the best work," that could be true, or true-ish."
No comment.
"We're still working with more women (and a larger percentage of poc) attending writing classes, but more men and white writers actually submitting work. How radical your discrepancy is, like I said, varies, but the discrepancy exists."
"...that chasm comes between writers developing their craft in the bosom of their communities, and writers taking a leap away from their local identity communities into the ether of the mainstream -- basically at the point where writers have to take a deep breath and submit their work to mainstream editors who don't know them and aren't familiar with the communities they come from...MOST WOMEN AND POC WRITERS FAIL TO MAKE THAT LEAP."
Data, motherfucker, do you have it? Because making broad, sweeping claims as to how objective and overall reality is (as opposed to what your own observed experience is, which can be and often is a very very different thing depending on who and where you are)is complete bullshit unless you can back up your claims with hard data. If you can't, sit down and shut up and don't claim to speak of objective reality when what you have is subjective experience.
"I can't tell you how many writers I've encouraged to submit their work who had never done it before because it simply never occurred to them. They never signed up for a writers list-serv. They don't read lit blogs that post opportunities on them. They don't know about Writers Market or the Poets & Writers database. They don't know that you can (and sort of have to) look the various markets up and note down their guidelines and simply submit work according to the guidelines."
Hint: THIS SHIT IS NOT TAUGHT IN SCHOOL. No, really, it isn't - or at least not in every school. Not in any public school that I ever attended or heard of second-hand. Not unless you're going to school for writing specifically. Not until the college level. Not even universally at the college level. You have to go out and dig for this information unless you are already connected to the insider's club somehow - and before anyone hops on my case about it being readily available online or any any library and 'omgwtf why didn't they just conduct bootstrap levitation? Here are Exty examples of folks who did!' - just shove it. I will not be addressing that bullshit today. Some background on that for the interested.
Also, I know that's it's an unnumbered Rule Of The Internet that you don't read the comments because they usually just bring the pain... but so many of the comments here are in the order of BITCH, NO that I read and enjoyed and felt better about the world. Including the very first one:
"I must say I was surprised to read this. I read a lot of slush and I have not shared your experience in the least." Posted by: Lauren P. Burka
And a bunch of others:
"I've edited 11 anthologies, published at least one story that wound up in Best American Short Stories, and I have not shared your experience of the slush pile." Posted by: Jay Lake
"It's not my experience, but then again, I'm not the one who made the claim that my experience was the experience of all slush readers." Posted by: Rachel Swirsky
"This has not been my experience as a slush reader" Posted by: molly
"Some of us don't necessarily value the literary venues and publishers you're talking about more than those lowly "ethnic" journals and publishers." Posted by: Lauren Wheeler
...side observation:
"...Every step in the long, slow process of literary accomplishment (looks like this: community writing classes, MFA courses, community readings, ethnic magazines, indy publishers, mainstream lit magazines, major publishers..."
Oh does it? Well shit, I guess I R doin' it rong what with my never having taken a class about writing at the community level, much less the MFA, not attending community readings, and never having posted in ethnic magazines... I guess I'll just pack up my short story publications with Circlet Press and go back to school like a good little arts scholar as there is one and exactly one path to follow.
ETA: She's apparantly also the author of "Can We NOT Do Racefail Again, Please?" and also a whole lot of other bullshit.