Have you ever considered piracy?

[monimala]

"Have you ever considered piracy? You'd make a wonderful Dread Pirate Roberts."
--Westley, The Princess Bride.

Pirates of Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl and Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest are touted as being Johnny Depp vehicles, as being movies about Captain Jack Sparrow or about Orlando Bloom's painfully honorable

Comments

[erinya]

Wandered over to your journal via your lovely fic at pirategasm and must say that I agree on all counts. I was just thinking yesterday that Elizabeth is the protagonist of these movies. She is the first character we see in both CotBP and DMC, and her actions drive the plot forward as much or more than Will's. I love her for this, for being an active heroine rather than a passive damsel.

Also, agreed on the original Star Wars parallels...although Jack was channelling C-3PO way more than Han in the cannibal island scenes. XD But Will is so Luke. Yes.

When Lizzie said "I'm so ready to be married," though, I interpreted it as "I'm so ready to GET LAID." She was ticked off about missing out on her wedding night. Not her wedding day.

I see you've got BtVS, Doctor Who and GA in your interests BTW...would you mind if I added you?

[monimala]

I'm wondering if Elizabeth's active role is what makes her such a hated character to many. If she was just a peripheral piece of fluff, would viewers like her better? If you could just close your eyes and gloss over her and make-believe the boys are all gay for each other, does that make it better

[erinya]

I'm wondering if Elizabeth's active role is what makes her such a hated character to many. If she was just a peripheral piece of fluff, would viewers like her better?

Yes. I think if it was easier to ignore her, the hate would be much less virulent. I see strong female characters reviled A LOT in fandom, and it always strikes me as misogyny, despite the fact that fandom is very much a female institution. An assertive, clever, sexual woman automatically gets labeled "bitch," "whore," etc.--by other women.

It's not just a fandom phenomenon, of course. But it's really extraordinary Elizabeth gets hate for doing and being all the things for which fandom loves Jack Sparrow: she is cunning, seductive, manipulative, and willing to do whatever is necessary to further her agenda. He's excused because he's a "pirate!" and excuses her likewise, but fandom is not so evenhanded.

And no worries, I don't mind not being added back, I just want to make sure I don't miss any fic or meta from you. :-)

[monimala]

I never understand why men get the "free pass" and female characters are reviled and denigrated for the exact same behavior by members *of their own gender*.

I wish someone could explain it to me. What's so important about having a penis? Seriously? why does that excuse your actions?

[40sw]

jealousy. competition.

seriously, women who wish they could be as beautiful & wish they could take/have power, whatever and aren't or can't resent women who do so...

men who do so are great, sexy, etc.
men aren't competition
there's no assumed rivalry no adversarial position so no resentment with men (hell, the men are the prize, right?)

but women are a threat

admittedly, it's stupid (and competing with a fictional character?) but seriously I'm absolutely convinced that's the root of the issue