First, a flash-animation parody even more frightening than the "taters" one: Gollum raps. (Dig the Orc in the bandanna.) Thanks to celticdave for finding that one
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...I'm happy to keep them separate.Amen. If I ever got the chance (or had the inclination) to speak with Sean about this, that's probably the thing I'd say in defense of slash writers: with a few random exceptions, most of us KNOW Tolkien didn't write Frodo and Sam as "gay" (though to be honest, I don't even like that term--even when I write slash, that's not how I see it. It's like what Rakshi said in one of her Sean/Elijah fics, in which Elijah and Ian were discussing Sean, and Ian commented: "I don't think Sean's gay. He just had the audacity to fall in love with his friend, who happened to be male." Which makes Sean's "Rosie Cotton" bit useless, because it's not that either one of them has a particular sexual standing. It's that they simply fell in love.). We know that subtext is only what we interpret it to be. But we write because we CAN feel that love between them--which is there no matter HOW you take it--and we WANT to look at it from another angle
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*nod nod* I know--does he really think the majority of Frodo-Sam-shippers are gay men? Hee. How naive, if so. (Which is what I thought at first too, but one learns quickly.)
In slash-verse, I view the Frodo/Sam possibility as a "fell in love with his friend" thing too, not a "Sam (or Frodo) is gay" thing. In Middle-Earth, I simply don't get the impression that "gay" is an option, as an identity, the way it is in modern life. As with most cultures until recent times, the notion of homosexuality may have referred to something people did, but not something people were.
Anyway, Sean doesn't seem to mind if we want to look at LOTR through slash-colored glasses. I cut a fair bit of his ramblings, but that was the point he was getting at: he doesn't wish to stand in the way of anyone's interpretation of, or interaction with, any story. A rare place where I'm with him 100% in this book. ;) (So far my main impression has been, "Dude. You must chill.")
In slash-verse, I view the Frodo/Sam possibility as a "fell in love with his friend" thing too, not a "Sam (or Frodo) is gay" thing.
I don't slash in the LotR world, but I do love Remus/Sirius, and that's the kinda relationship I see at least from Sirius's standpoint -- he's not really *gay*, certainly not flaming, but he just fell for one of his best friends. Remus I can see more as gay, hee.
And I second the snickering at the idea that most slashers are gay men. Hee. Silly Sean! ;)
Heehee - yes, I suppose Remus does seem a bit, er, lavender. But then he's British, so it's hard to tell. (Kidding, my UK friends! You know I love you.) The HP world, of course, is the modern world for the most part, so such labels might be more applicable. We can pretend we know what hobbits would think of such things, but it's all idle speculation since it's a fantasy realm, and Tolkien sure as heck never said. ;)
I simply don't get the impression that "gay" is an option
Exactly! Sexuality--hell, even GENDER--doesn't seem to matter to most slash writers. It's as though the characters are just as likely to fall in love with females as males--it's not gender that ultimately decides, it's emotion towards a personality. There are arguments, most notably from researcher Alfred Kinsey, that sexuality, rather than being black and white as Americans insist on labeling it, is more of a spectrum, with exclusive heterosexuality at one end and exclusive homosexuality at the other. If hobbit society had accepted that, then it would give them a lot more freedom when falling in love, becasue gender would play no part. And rather than saying "I'm homosexual" then looking exclusively to others of your gender, or saying "I'm heterosexual" and looking only to the opposite, there would be "I'm human" and looking towards emotion.
So far my main impression has been, "Dude. You must chill."LoL!! Precisely my reaction when I see him speaking--well, anywhere
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And rather than saying "I'm homosexual" then looking exclusively to others of your gender, or saying "I'm heterosexual" and looking only to the opposite, there would be "I'm human" and looking towards emotion.
rather than saying "I'm homosexual" then looking exclusively to others of your gender, or saying "I'm heterosexual" and looking only to the opposite, there would be "I'm human" and looking towards emotion.
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I know--does he really think the majority of Frodo-Sam-shippers are gay men? Hee. How naive, if so. (Which is what I thought at first too, but one learns quickly.)
In slash-verse, I view the Frodo/Sam possibility as a "fell in love with his friend" thing too, not a "Sam (or Frodo) is gay" thing. In Middle-Earth, I simply don't get the impression that "gay" is an option, as an identity, the way it is in modern life. As with most cultures until recent times, the notion of homosexuality may have referred to something people did, but not something people were.
Anyway, Sean doesn't seem to mind if we want to look at LOTR through slash-colored glasses. I cut a fair bit of his ramblings, but that was the point he was getting at: he doesn't wish to stand in the way of anyone's interpretation of, or interaction with, any story. A rare place where I'm with him 100% in this book. ;) (So far my main impression has been, "Dude. You must chill.")
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I don't slash in the LotR world, but I do love Remus/Sirius, and that's the kinda relationship I see at least from Sirius's standpoint -- he's not really *gay*, certainly not flaming, but he just fell for one of his best friends. Remus I can see more as gay, hee.
And I second the snickering at the idea that most slashers are gay men. Hee. Silly Sean! ;)
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You had better. We can be very violent.
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Exactly! Sexuality--hell, even GENDER--doesn't seem to matter to most slash writers. It's as though the characters are just as likely to fall in love with females as males--it's not gender that ultimately decides, it's emotion towards a personality. There are arguments, most notably from researcher Alfred Kinsey, that sexuality, rather than being black and white as Americans insist on labeling it, is more of a spectrum, with exclusive heterosexuality at one end and exclusive homosexuality at the other. If hobbit society had accepted that, then it would give them a lot more freedom when falling in love, becasue gender would play no part. And rather than saying "I'm homosexual" then looking exclusively to others of your gender, or saying "I'm heterosexual" and looking only to the opposite, there would be "I'm human" and looking towards emotion.
So far my main impression has been, "Dude. You must chill."LoL!! Precisely my reaction when I see him speaking--well, anywhere ( ... )
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Word. Well said.
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Yes! Exactly.
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