Comments | mojave_wolf: Given the overall mood of the political blogosphere . . .

mojave_wolf

Given the overall mood of the political blogosphere . . .

May 07, 2008 01:31

I posted this as a comment over at Anglachel's blog earlier, thought I'd repost it here (for a more positive take, see here: http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27616) (from an electoral horse-race point of view, NC was about what I expected and Indiana ( Read more... )

presidential election, election 2008, general election, barack obama, politics, democratic primary, hillary clinton

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caliantrias May 7 2008, 16:44:26 UTC

I'm curious as to why you distrust Obama on reproductive freedom? Also, after reading this article comparing Clinton and Obama's voting record I think he is headed in the right direction with energy policy.

The nuclear issue right now is a real pain-in-the-ass with long time opponents suddenly thinking they have to compromise on it. This may represent the difference in the movement between those who have deep environmental concerns and those who only saw it as a human safety concern. Whatever the cause, we need to correct it.

mojave_wolf May 7 2008, 17:25:38 UTC

Is that a real article or just something posted at Kos? They have the same level of credibility w/me as Barbara Ehrenreich or Rush Limbaugh at this point . . . (you might want to copy and paste; I refuse to click on links to that site--I didn't like them even before the campaign and now I *loathe* them and wish Markos's advertising revenue to dry up).

Nukes is what turned me off Obama in the first place (yeah, I know, I've said that 100 times, I'll try to stop for a few days at least now). This is something we're in total accord on; I've posted thoughts on it at a couple of places but will do a separate comment here sometime soon.

Re: Obama/abortion -- see my response to another comment right above yorus, plus his book, though after calling it a troubling or undeniably vexing issue and stating his support of anti-choice dems and sympathy for anti-choice republicans throughout it, he did finally come out as claiming to be (and probably actually is, in a very passive way) pro-choice at the end of it.

caliantrias May 7 2008, 17:30:53 UTC

The KOS article is from January. I *think* it was before they ....oh wait, I'm confusing KOS with Democratic (f)Underground. I selected it with caution thinking it was DU before DU turned rabidly anti-clinton. Anyway, it has some selected quotes from various issues and debates. I guess, I wouldn't bother now that I realize it's probably not very objective.

Heh, I can't tell if your last sentence was serious or sarcastic . . . mojave_wolf May 7 2008, 18:11:57 UTC

I realize I get *very* worked up about this and hope I haven't offended you. I actually have clicked on a link to DU for something not that long ago that I thought was decent (assuming I haven't also gotten confused about who was who; is Chris Bowers at DU?), though yeah, for the most part, as w/most of the established left blogs, they went rabidly anti-Clinton ( ... )

Re: Heh, I can't tell if your last sentence was serious or sarcastic . . . caliantrias May 7 2008, 18:37:43 UTC

No, I'm not offended. Nor am I seriously concerned about converting you as logn as you are supporting Cynthia McKinney. It's really just a fascination about why we developed the perceptions we have.

his supporters went on air everywhere out here after the Cali elections blaming his defeat on racist Mexicans

WtF!? Now *that* I hadn't heard. I wish I had an extra lifetime to analyze this race.

Re: Heh, I can't tell if your last sentence was serious or sarcastic . . . mojave_wolf May 7 2008, 22:13:07 UTC

To be totally fair to his more high profile people, they only said that he lost due to underlying tensions between blacks and hispanics, for the most part, though that was generally *taken* (accurately, I think) to mean racism. Only a few directly suggested racist hispanics and asians in addition to racist whites being the problem (one of the reasons I most *loathe* his supporters is their tendency to assume all anti-Obama love comes from racism) with Obama losing the entire southwest other than Colorado. The "racist Mexicans" came from an obnoxious person on the bus, and a horde of people online ( ... )

Re: Heh, I can't tell if your last sentence was serious or sarcastic . . . caliantrias May 7 2008, 22:23:38 UTC

Those "hordes of people online" are critical. That's part of what I mean by perception, we judge the candidates by their supporters. Early on in this game I was rabidly anti-Clinton and proclaiming I;d vote 3rd party before I support her. Back then her supporters were arguing for unity and were shocked by my attitude. Now, I read that half of her supporters are taking my position. Did I cause this? I'm sure I contributed to it.

Future candidates are going to have to learn to better guide their supporters. I desperately wish Obama had come out a month ago and said "cut it out. Leave the attacks to us, they are part of the process but you don't need to be attacking each other."

Re: Heh, I can't tell if your last sentence was serious or sarcastic . . . mojave_wolf May 8 2008, 00:12:08 UTC

I think this may be where some of the difference came from in perception--I was really shocked at the democrats and supposed democrats (I still believe some of them are Republican plants, but I'm sure some of them aren't) who basically bought into all the right wing smears against the Clintons, and against Hillary in particular. I still remember this one person I got into an argument with who kept talking about Gennifer Flowers (and I keep seeing Obama people arguing that Bill cheating was Hillary's fault and keep thinking wtf???? No it wasn't and who cares what goes on in their marriage as long as they're okay with each other? it's nobody else's fucking business) and "travelgate" and stuff . . . I even remember reading one of her supporters saying they liked her in part because they thought the whole "dragon lady" thing was appealing. I can't believe (non-Republican) people bought the whole smear against her over the years ( ... )

Re: Heh, I can't tell if your last sentence was serious or sarcastic . . . caliantrias May 8 2008, 13:35:09 UTC

Wow. You must be encountering a lot of Reagan democrats. I have never encountered the people you describe. My experience comes from the far left where we view Clintons as centrists-at-best and closet conservatives at worst. Our frustration is that they are faux-progressives - promoting policies that seem liberal but in the long run (or in the details) are shams ( ... )

Re: Heh, I can't tell if your last sentence was serious or sarcastic . . . mojave_wolf May 9 2008, 03:39:04 UTC

Weirdly enough, most of the people I've encountered who call themselves Reagan democrats are for Hillary(they mostly are at Taylor Marsh or No Quarter), just as a majority of the people who online call themselves "far left" (or some variation) say they are for Obama, frequently touting his progressive policies, usually w/out saying what they are (because they aren't, for the most part, more progressive than Hillary's; I can think of exactly two exceptions and she is wrong on both, and I don't get why people aware of these aren't willing to do a balancing act comparison ( ... )

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