Anti-fluoride nutballs

[alex_antonin]

Here in Portland, the issue of putting fluoride in water has come up. Which came as a shock to me; I've lived in so many cities, and they all did fluoride in the water, that I naturally assumed that every city in the Western world was already doing it. After all, it's proven to be a safe and cheap means of preventing tooth decay, and the only

Comments

[sesmo]

Ah yes, fluoride, the stuff that they tell you not to let your kids use in toothpaste, because they might swallow it. And if they do eat toothpaste, they tell you to call poison control. I can't imagine why people might thing it's not good for you.

Oh right, it's because there is such a thing as fluoride poisoning. http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM199401133300203

[katsiss]

I think it's funny how people are going crazy about the yard signs

[katsiss]

D'oh comment placement fail

[dandelion]

"Ah yes, fluoride, the stuff that they tell you not to let your kids use in toothpaste, because they might swallow it."
Hang on, that's not quite accurate. Children aren't supposed to swallow fluoridated toothpaste, but almost all children's toothpaste does contain fluoride, and non-fluoridated toothpaste is unusual, so it's not exactly "the stuff they tell you not to let your kids use". The American Dental Association only warn against fluoridated toothpaste under age 2, and that's because of water fluoridation. Countries without water fluoridation don't stop even under-twos using fluoride toothpaste (the British Dental Association says "All children up to three years old should use a toothpaste with a fluoride level of at least 1000ppm (parts per million). After three years old they should use a toothpaste that contains 1350ppm to 1500ppm.").

I think it's probably also unfair to equate the harms of swallowing toothpaste (fluoride 1000-1500ppm, up to 5000ppm) with fluoridated drinking water (fluoride 0.7-1ppm).

[gerald_duck]

On the other hand, you're supposed to take in at least two litres of fluids a day. Two litres of water at 1ppm is equivalent to eating about 6.5cm (2½") of 1500ppm toothpaste.

[dandelion]

But the restriction on eating toothpaste applies to children under 6, and there's no way children under 6 are drinking what amounts to a minimum of 10% of their bodyweight daily (average 6-year-old = 20kg).

[gerald_duck]

OK. Working the other direction, that page says a child aged 3-6 should only portion of toothpaste the size of a pea. Google says a pea is 0.2ml, so that's a dose equivalent to only 300ml of fluoridated tap water.

[dandelion]

I don't think that's right, but I'm too tired to work out where the problem is. A pea may contain 0.2ml of water, but toothpaste is often sold in 100ml tubes here and I use a pea-sized amount because I only have a small-headed electric toothbrush. If I used 0.2ml of toothpaste per brush, my toothpaste would last me 500 brushes (about 8 months if used twice daily). I'm sure I buy toothpaste more often than that.

(Plus, something I was wondering - is it possible that there's more potential harm in an acute dose of fluoride, than in the same or higher dose of fluoride but ingested over a longer period, hence swallowing toothpaste = bad but equivalent amount of water = fine? I have no idea, just throwing it out there. Fluoride poisoning isn't something I've ever read about treating and the water here isn't fluoridated.)

[sesmo]

Actually, no the restriction on eating toothpaste applies to all living creatures. Fluoride poisoning can actually be deadly.

[dandelion]

No, people can be prescribed fluoride supplements by mouth, so people do eat fluoride.

[sesmo]

Seriously? That's a counter argument? People are also given lots of other medicines that can kill, when taken in an inappropriate dosage. Maybe this article will help: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/01/snake-venom-medicine-toxic_n_2957975.html

[dandelion]

I have no idea what you're trying to tell me. I thought you were arguing that people can't eat fluoride. I argued that people do eat fluoride. So you give me a link about snake venom? I'm not quite sure what you're after.

[sesmo]

Toothpaste for kids under 3 are fluoride free, and the side of the toothpaste says "if more than the amount on a toothbrush is swallowed, call poison control."

I'm told the amount that should be put on a toothbrush is the volume of a pea. According to one website, the average volume of a pea is 200 microlitres. You're supposed to drink about 2.2L/day, which is 11,000 times that volume.

So doing the basic math, I'm going to say that my fluoride exposure due to fluoridated water is higher than my exposure if I ate toothpaste. And yet one tells me to call poison control, while the other one is perfectly safe & I'm nuts to even be concerned about it.

[dandelion]

Er, where to start...

Toothpaste does not have the same density as peas, and there is no way people are putting 200 microlitres of toothpaste on their toothbrush. Do you really think people are getting 500 brushes out of a single tube of toothpaste?

Children just do not drink 2.2 litres of water - for a 3-year-old that is 15% of their bodyweight.

Toothpaste for children under three often does contain fluoride: http://www.boots.com/en/Aquafresh-Milk-Teeth-Toothpaste-50ml_867529/ for example. (And, having seen this toothpaste, there's no poison control warning on the label...)

[matrexius]

There's such a thing as water poisoning, too.

[ext_3603475]

;=)