oh my
ok so what follows is one of the writers of hte musical Hairspray responding to an article written by the writer of Marie Christine.
Me, Marc Shaiman responds to Michael John LaChiusa
Posted by: MarcShaiman 06:45 pm EDT 08/05/05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just finished reading Michael John LaChiusa’s essay on the death of the American Musical in “OPERA NEWS”. I’d like to take a moment to address some of his “quoted” remarks.
“The American Musical is dead.”
Michael John LaChiusa, The Coroner Of Broadway!
“I’m old-school about what makes a musical a musical.”
Me too, pal.
“Lyric, music, libretto, choreography - all work in equal parts to spin out the drama. And the best of craftsmanship is employed, craftsmanship that nods to the past and leans to the future: a great song is something we think we’ve heard before but haven’t. A real musical makes perfect symmetry out of the muck of diverse and eclectic sources, and transcends those sources. A real musical is organic in all its parts. It’s equal parts intelligence and heart. It can never be realistic theater, only realistic in its humanity.
Wow, that is what we, who created “HAIRSPRAY”, strove to do. How dismaying to find out that you’ve decided we failed. Oh dear!
“Faux-musicals are just that - faux. The Producers is an example; so is Hairspray. If that label sounds disparaging, it’s not meant to be. The creators of these shows set out to make musicals based on formulae, and they delivered. Neither transcends its source material (both are based on wonderful cult films)”
Mel Brooks and John Waters seem to disagree, how odd. I guess you have more understanding of those films than they.
“...but as facsimiles of the real thing, they do very nicely - and the box-office receipts prove that.”
Thank God, you should see my monthly nut!
“In no way do these two shows aspire to be the next West Side Story or Sunday in the Park with George.”
Ahhh…now I think we’re on to something! Maybe if certain theatrical undertakers stopped trying to be Stephen Sondheim, we could all ‘rest in peace’.
“There’s not even an attempt to deliver an old-fashioned, knock-’em-dead, lodge-like-bullet-hook number à la Jerry Herman.”
Gee, every time I’ve run into him, Jerry Herman joyously disagrees, but what does HE know compared to “Mr. Razzmatazz” himself, Michael John LaChiusa? Personally, I can’t get “You Can’t Stop The beat” outa my head after I see “HAIRSPRAY”. Well, it came outa my head (and heart), so I guess I’m partial to it.
“All sense of invention and craft is abandoned in favor of delivering what the audience thinks a musical should deliver…There is no challenge, no confrontation, no art - and everyone sighs with relief.”
Good God, what happened to you as a child? “All sense of craft is abandoned”? For that line alone I feel entitled to bitch slap you silly!
The creators (and subsequently very rich producers)…
Ok, ok, we get it. Next time we get together, dinner’s on me!
…of these pieces consider them to be “loving valentines” to the musical, by their very act of imitation. A philosopher might consider them simulacra: Plato’s “copy of a copy,” a fake that seems more real than the real thing.
Ooh, such big words!
There are film adaptations of both The Producers and Hairspray in the works - that is, movie versions of the stage versions of the original movies.
Yes? And? So? They made a movie from the musical “Mame”. The fact that “Auntie Mame” was a book and a play and a movie before it was a musical, does that make this evolutionary process ok for you? And more importantly, what exactly did they PUT on that lens for poor old Lucy’s sake?
Mikey, what is the exact line one mustn’t cross when adapting? You yourself wrote a “musical/opera” based on “Medea”. How dare you! Don’t you know it’s been filmed??!! How dare you recycle that old story! And, if I may ask a more burning question, how could you write an opera/musical of Medea and leave the most dramatic event off stage, leaving poor hard working Mary Testa to make that face towards the stage right wings? What a thrilling, frightening and yet darkly entertaining aria that would have been. (Oops, I used the “E” word.)
“The faux-musical…creators pride themselves on producing “escapist” entertainment for a troubled time. But even that’s a faux supposition, more P.R. than genuine sentiment. Escapist theater still should be theater.”
Oh MJLC, where were you when we were writing “HAIRSPRAY”? We were stuck with that damn Jack O’Brien, who knows so little of what makes good and nutritious theatre.
Once [Nathan & Harvey’s] replacements [took] over, the shows revealed themselves for what they are: machines. Instead of choreography, there is dancing. Instead of crafted songwriting, there is tune-positioning.
Insulting me is easy, I’m short and weak, but damn, you are brave insulting Jerry Mitchell like that. He is one big, tall, STRONG mother hen…I advise you to stay miles away from Shubert Alley after dark, that queen ‘ll clock ya’ clear cross town!!
…”mocking the unrealistic nature of musicals has its limits. The Producers and Hairspray celebrate that quality, no matter how mechanical or sloppy the execution may be to discerning eyes and ears.“
Them’s fightin’ words.
“Hairspray and The Producers seem to endorse the hateful operatic adage: no one listens to lyric.”
Listen bub, I take great pride in the lyrics Scott & I crafted for “HAIRSPRAY”. Striving to stay true to the vernacular of our characters time and place, we fretted over every damn syllable. Speaking of words, I have a few in mind right now for you, but I will leave them to your more “discerning” imagination.
“… I’m talking about the “green.”…Theater owners need the green to pay the rent. Producers need the green to pay the theater owners. Writers, directors, designers, actors, technicians and musicians need the green to pay for their living costs in order to create and perform in hits. Advertising a show to get the green requires the green. The Great White Way has always been about the green. I think it is well worth a read and perhaps a laugh or cry:
Professor LaChiusa, you have finally brought up a subject you are clearly in touch with. Green. As in “with envy”.
In parting, may I offer one last rebuttal? When I saw “MARIE CHRISTINE” there was a moment where the Greek Chorus sat in the front rows at Lincoln Center, in full view. Unfortunately that night, a man with a bright white shirt (making him hard to ignore) was seated right next to them, mouth open, head back, dead asleep. Mr. LaChiusa, it is MY opinion that you made the CARDINAL sin of bad theatre. You BORED the audience.
But that is just my opinion, just as your vicious attack was yours, although stated as fact. I just have to remind myself what the say about opinions and assholes, everyone has one. But who asked to see yours?
-Marc Shaiman
----------------------------------------------------------------
AND AS IF THIS WASN"T THE LONGEST POST EVER:
the other name has been deleted since i didn't ask if i could post it:
MKLonstage [10:52 PM]: you read it?
???: [10:56 PM]: sorry, I was on the phone
???: [10:56 PM]: I'll read it now
MKLonstage [10:56 PM]: k
???: [11:01 PM]: wait...so which one do you agree with??
MKLonstage [11:02 PM]: well i can see some of boht sides but i am more towrds marc shaimen
???: [11:02 PM]: because I totally agree with Michael John LaChiusa
???: [11:02 PM]: I have an "old-school" view
MKLonstage [11:02 PM]: i jsut htink the MJLC is kinda biting the hand that feeds him
MKLonstage [11:03 PM]: but these musicals are very much like the entertainments that led to musical theatre they are i think jsut a modern take on the classic musical comedy
MKLonstage [11:03 PM]: no they aren't R&H musical (those were more dramatic) but i think that some of the modern book shows are along the lines of Loesser shows or some jerry herman
MKLonstage [11:04 PM]: maybe Merideth Wilson
???: [11:05 PM]: The first line is "The American Musical is dead" and I think that he takes great pride in defining "The American Musical" as something more than just your entertaining musical comedy
MKLonstage [11:05 PM]: MJLC i enjoy but he is more along the lines of Boubil Schonberg and ALW
MKLonstage [11:05 PM]: right but the american musical inclides entertaining comedy
MKLonstage [11:05 PM]: that is where they began
MKLonstage [11:06 PM]: the musical is a truly american art form we lost sight of the differnt facets durring the 80's and the eupropena invasion of Epic musical
???: [11:06 PM]: but that "began" with a lot of western eauropean comic opera too...whereas the american musical comedy is something uniquly ours
???: [11:06 PM]: *american musica
???: [11:06 PM]: l
MKLonstage [11:07 PM]: i think the musical is sturgling to find its identity post invasion but i dont think it is dead and i think that hairspray and producers are great examples of american musical....i think MJLC work is also a great example
MKLonstage [11:07 PM]: they are just two differnt sides of my favoirte art form
MKLonstage [11:07 PM]: i think they are both wrong to be slinging mud back and forth
MKLonstage [11:08 PM]: they jsut approach their art form differnet ways...it would be like picasso saying seraut's work is not great paonting because it doens't challenge the mind as much
???: [11:08 PM]: but that's what art critisism is all about and that's part of what makes the arts wonderful
???: [11:09 PM]: people have such strong opinions and they can make people really THINK
???: [11:09 PM]: about what they watch/listen to/see/read
MKLonstage [11:09 PM]: true art causes great conversations like this one
???: [11:09 PM]: exactly
MKLonstage [11:10 PM]: i meen i love doing shows that challenge the audience and make them think and question themselves it is one of our highest callings as artist, but entertaining and letting people escape reality in hard times is also a high calling
???: [11:10 PM]: right, and both are worthy of critisism
MKLonstage [11:11 PM]: yes
???: [11:11 PM]: anyway, I'm DETERMINED to finish this fucking book tonight
???"[11:11 PM]: so I'm gonna go read
MKLonstage [11:11 PM]: lol ok
Me, Marc Shaiman responds to Michael John LaChiusa
Posted by: MarcShaiman 06:45 pm EDT 08/05/05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just finished reading Michael John LaChiusa’s essay on the death of the American Musical in “OPERA NEWS”. I’d like to take a moment to address some of his “quoted” remarks.
“The American Musical is dead.”
Michael John LaChiusa, The Coroner Of Broadway!
“I’m old-school about what makes a musical a musical.”
Me too, pal.
“Lyric, music, libretto, choreography - all work in equal parts to spin out the drama. And the best of craftsmanship is employed, craftsmanship that nods to the past and leans to the future: a great song is something we think we’ve heard before but haven’t. A real musical makes perfect symmetry out of the muck of diverse and eclectic sources, and transcends those sources. A real musical is organic in all its parts. It’s equal parts intelligence and heart. It can never be realistic theater, only realistic in its humanity.
Wow, that is what we, who created “HAIRSPRAY”, strove to do. How dismaying to find out that you’ve decided we failed. Oh dear!
“Faux-musicals are just that - faux. The Producers is an example; so is Hairspray. If that label sounds disparaging, it’s not meant to be. The creators of these shows set out to make musicals based on formulae, and they delivered. Neither transcends its source material (both are based on wonderful cult films)”
Mel Brooks and John Waters seem to disagree, how odd. I guess you have more understanding of those films than they.
“...but as facsimiles of the real thing, they do very nicely - and the box-office receipts prove that.”
Thank God, you should see my monthly nut!
“In no way do these two shows aspire to be the next West Side Story or Sunday in the Park with George.”
Ahhh…now I think we’re on to something! Maybe if certain theatrical undertakers stopped trying to be Stephen Sondheim, we could all ‘rest in peace’.
“There’s not even an attempt to deliver an old-fashioned, knock-’em-dead, lodge-like-bullet-hook number à la Jerry Herman.”
Gee, every time I’ve run into him, Jerry Herman joyously disagrees, but what does HE know compared to “Mr. Razzmatazz” himself, Michael John LaChiusa? Personally, I can’t get “You Can’t Stop The beat” outa my head after I see “HAIRSPRAY”. Well, it came outa my head (and heart), so I guess I’m partial to it.
“All sense of invention and craft is abandoned in favor of delivering what the audience thinks a musical should deliver…There is no challenge, no confrontation, no art - and everyone sighs with relief.”
Good God, what happened to you as a child? “All sense of craft is abandoned”? For that line alone I feel entitled to bitch slap you silly!
The creators (and subsequently very rich producers)…
Ok, ok, we get it. Next time we get together, dinner’s on me!
…of these pieces consider them to be “loving valentines” to the musical, by their very act of imitation. A philosopher might consider them simulacra: Plato’s “copy of a copy,” a fake that seems more real than the real thing.
Ooh, such big words!
There are film adaptations of both The Producers and Hairspray in the works - that is, movie versions of the stage versions of the original movies.
Yes? And? So? They made a movie from the musical “Mame”. The fact that “Auntie Mame” was a book and a play and a movie before it was a musical, does that make this evolutionary process ok for you? And more importantly, what exactly did they PUT on that lens for poor old Lucy’s sake?
Mikey, what is the exact line one mustn’t cross when adapting? You yourself wrote a “musical/opera” based on “Medea”. How dare you! Don’t you know it’s been filmed??!! How dare you recycle that old story! And, if I may ask a more burning question, how could you write an opera/musical of Medea and leave the most dramatic event off stage, leaving poor hard working Mary Testa to make that face towards the stage right wings? What a thrilling, frightening and yet darkly entertaining aria that would have been. (Oops, I used the “E” word.)
“The faux-musical…creators pride themselves on producing “escapist” entertainment for a troubled time. But even that’s a faux supposition, more P.R. than genuine sentiment. Escapist theater still should be theater.”
Oh MJLC, where were you when we were writing “HAIRSPRAY”? We were stuck with that damn Jack O’Brien, who knows so little of what makes good and nutritious theatre.
Once [Nathan & Harvey’s] replacements [took] over, the shows revealed themselves for what they are: machines. Instead of choreography, there is dancing. Instead of crafted songwriting, there is tune-positioning.
Insulting me is easy, I’m short and weak, but damn, you are brave insulting Jerry Mitchell like that. He is one big, tall, STRONG mother hen…I advise you to stay miles away from Shubert Alley after dark, that queen ‘ll clock ya’ clear cross town!!
…”mocking the unrealistic nature of musicals has its limits. The Producers and Hairspray celebrate that quality, no matter how mechanical or sloppy the execution may be to discerning eyes and ears.“
Them’s fightin’ words.
“Hairspray and The Producers seem to endorse the hateful operatic adage: no one listens to lyric.”
Listen bub, I take great pride in the lyrics Scott & I crafted for “HAIRSPRAY”. Striving to stay true to the vernacular of our characters time and place, we fretted over every damn syllable. Speaking of words, I have a few in mind right now for you, but I will leave them to your more “discerning” imagination.
“… I’m talking about the “green.”…Theater owners need the green to pay the rent. Producers need the green to pay the theater owners. Writers, directors, designers, actors, technicians and musicians need the green to pay for their living costs in order to create and perform in hits. Advertising a show to get the green requires the green. The Great White Way has always been about the green. I think it is well worth a read and perhaps a laugh or cry:
Professor LaChiusa, you have finally brought up a subject you are clearly in touch with. Green. As in “with envy”.
In parting, may I offer one last rebuttal? When I saw “MARIE CHRISTINE” there was a moment where the Greek Chorus sat in the front rows at Lincoln Center, in full view. Unfortunately that night, a man with a bright white shirt (making him hard to ignore) was seated right next to them, mouth open, head back, dead asleep. Mr. LaChiusa, it is MY opinion that you made the CARDINAL sin of bad theatre. You BORED the audience.
But that is just my opinion, just as your vicious attack was yours, although stated as fact. I just have to remind myself what the say about opinions and assholes, everyone has one. But who asked to see yours?
-Marc Shaiman
----------------------------------------------------------------
AND AS IF THIS WASN"T THE LONGEST POST EVER:
the other name has been deleted since i didn't ask if i could post it:
MKLonstage [10:52 PM]: you read it?
???: [10:56 PM]: sorry, I was on the phone
???: [10:56 PM]: I'll read it now
MKLonstage [10:56 PM]: k
???: [11:01 PM]: wait...so which one do you agree with??
MKLonstage [11:02 PM]: well i can see some of boht sides but i am more towrds marc shaimen
???: [11:02 PM]: because I totally agree with Michael John LaChiusa
???: [11:02 PM]: I have an "old-school" view
MKLonstage [11:02 PM]: i jsut htink the MJLC is kinda biting the hand that feeds him
MKLonstage [11:03 PM]: but these musicals are very much like the entertainments that led to musical theatre they are i think jsut a modern take on the classic musical comedy
MKLonstage [11:03 PM]: no they aren't R&H musical (those were more dramatic) but i think that some of the modern book shows are along the lines of Loesser shows or some jerry herman
MKLonstage [11:04 PM]: maybe Merideth Wilson
???: [11:05 PM]: The first line is "The American Musical is dead" and I think that he takes great pride in defining "The American Musical" as something more than just your entertaining musical comedy
MKLonstage [11:05 PM]: MJLC i enjoy but he is more along the lines of Boubil Schonberg and ALW
MKLonstage [11:05 PM]: right but the american musical inclides entertaining comedy
MKLonstage [11:05 PM]: that is where they began
MKLonstage [11:06 PM]: the musical is a truly american art form we lost sight of the differnt facets durring the 80's and the eupropena invasion of Epic musical
???: [11:06 PM]: but that "began" with a lot of western eauropean comic opera too...whereas the american musical comedy is something uniquly ours
???: [11:06 PM]: *american musica
???: [11:06 PM]: l
MKLonstage [11:07 PM]: i think the musical is sturgling to find its identity post invasion but i dont think it is dead and i think that hairspray and producers are great examples of american musical....i think MJLC work is also a great example
MKLonstage [11:07 PM]: they are just two differnt sides of my favoirte art form
MKLonstage [11:07 PM]: i think they are both wrong to be slinging mud back and forth
MKLonstage [11:08 PM]: they jsut approach their art form differnet ways...it would be like picasso saying seraut's work is not great paonting because it doens't challenge the mind as much
???: [11:08 PM]: but that's what art critisism is all about and that's part of what makes the arts wonderful
???: [11:09 PM]: people have such strong opinions and they can make people really THINK
???: [11:09 PM]: about what they watch/listen to/see/read
MKLonstage [11:09 PM]: true art causes great conversations like this one
???: [11:09 PM]: exactly
MKLonstage [11:10 PM]: i meen i love doing shows that challenge the audience and make them think and question themselves it is one of our highest callings as artist, but entertaining and letting people escape reality in hard times is also a high calling
???: [11:10 PM]: right, and both are worthy of critisism
MKLonstage [11:11 PM]: yes
???: [11:11 PM]: anyway, I'm DETERMINED to finish this fucking book tonight
???"[11:11 PM]: so I'm gonna go read
MKLonstage [11:11 PM]: lol ok