Don't do business with PNC Mortgage
Friends, rodents, quadrapeds! Lend me your rears. Public post for a good reason!
I have been banking with PNC Bank since August 2000, when I opened a student checking account with them. I have had checking, savings, money market, and credit card accounts with them since then and have been extremely satisfied. Their customer service people are available 24-7, they are Americans in America, they are knowledgeable and helpful, and since I'm a phone/remote IT guy I make sure to talk to their managers to praise especially helpful or saved-my-ass moments. I like to think that they're a good company to do business with. They'll call me if they see weird transactions to verify if my card has been compromised. If I lost or stole a card, I had another one the next business day after I called in about it.
When it came time to look for houses, Chris and I stopped in to the PNC Mortgage branch in Fords, NJ in October. We met with Jake (name changed) to go over details. We'd brought along pay stubs, our 2009 tax return, copies of our credit scores that I'd just pulled, and other sundry financial details. Jake was very helpful and ran the numbers, quoting us a mortgage APR of 4.7% for an FHA loan. Later, once we made an offer on a house which we opted not to pursue, he gave us closing cost estimates and loan life cost estimates for FHA. They were a bit high, and Jake offered to get us in on a conventional 30-year mortgage. It was a lot better in terms of costs and the APR was 4.375%. It was a lot better. He was doing a good job looking out for us, we thought.
Mid-November came, and we had an accepted offer on a house in Union, with the offer itself being accepted around 11/16. It was a really good deal - well within our budget, nice place, clean, well kept, not too much wrong with it. Both we and the seller wanted to close by the end of the year - the seller wanted to avoid 2011 changes to the estate tax, and we wanted to claim the home on our 2010 taxes (Chris’ income was low due to her being a Rutgers TA for most of the year; it would be advantageous to have homeowners’ standard deductions to increase our refund). Jake said we should definitely be able to close by 12/31. Our realtor and attorney said it would be tough but doable.
As we proceeded with the home inspection, we kicked off the loan application process. He requested further paperwork, including statements from one of Chris' brokerage accounts. The brokerage account had gotten a statement returned, so as a security feature, they locked it down. It took us a week and a half as we sorted out home-inspection issues, and Jake was more than patient but the process couldn’t move forward without at least the statement. The funds we could get later.
We got him the Vanguard statement on 12/13, and he ordered the appraisal. That was done by 12/17. The inspection issues we were sorting out, and Jake said that we were still on track to close. We had already made a standard 10% deposit and had the funds ready to cover the remaining 10%. A 20% deposit means you don’t have to pay Private Mortgage Insurance (PMI), which means you don’t have to pay $100ish extra per month since you have such low equity in the house to start (not to mention a $2000ish initial premium). In other words, 20% up front saves you TONS down the road. We had no further requirements put upon us by PNC’s mortgage underwriters at that time. We were two weeks from our targeted closing date. We’d hoped for 12/22 but nobody seriously thought we’d close that quickly, given the delays from my Chris' brokerage in getting our access restored. Meanwhile, we locked our rates at 4.375% for 45 days in order to keep that secure before closing.
Christmas came and went. We were constantly emailing Jake to see if there was anything further. He said that we were still waiting on the underwriters to make a decision and issue a commitment letter, after which point we could go to closing. Nothing. We had packed half of our stuff, mostly things we didn’t use so much but also our cooking stuff, spices, etc. We’d left ourselves a week’s worth of clothes in hopes of just making the move over New Year’s weekend. Chris, being a teacher, would have the time off from school to move stuff over.
We’d asked Jake on 12/29 if we should unpack, if Chris should schedule time off - not optimal for a first-year teacher but understandable if it came down to it. He said he’d let us know. 12/30 came, we begged for an update - “I’ll let you know.”
Needless to say, 12/31 came with no closure.
I was not a happy camper at that point. I emailed him again to express my disappointment that he kept us going and hoping with no word as to the fact that it wasn’t going to happen. He apologized profusely, said that he hadn’t heard anything from the underwriters nor were they giving him any callback times. He offered a $500 closing credit - fair enough - and said we should schedule the following Friday to close.
Now, to close, the funds have to actually been released by the bank, which takes about 48 hours after receiving a mortgage commitment. On Wednesday, 1/5, he told us the commitment was still not forthcoming and he’d call me back within 20 minutes with an update to confirm or advise pushing back. That 20 minute deadline that he set for himself came and went. Calls and emails went unanswered that day. On 1/6, he again apologized and said we should reschedule for Monday, 1/10. All right, fine, done.
On 1/7, Friday, I received an email from PNC containing details on how to log on and obtain our mortgage disclosures and application paperwork to sign and return. At this point, I turned pissed off beyond any anger I’ve ever felt before:
-Our rate had gone up a full percentage point from 4.375% to 5.375%
-They had gotten our purchase price wrong - they put it as $289,000 with a $4,000 seller concession towards closing costs when it was really $289,000 with the $4,000 concession
-The incorrect closing cost had thrown off our down payment amount
-They got my wife and my residence history wrong
-Got both our employment histories wrong
-Listed my student loan THREE TIMES as a debt obligation
-Listed our joint credit card account twice and my personal credit card account twice
Now, being a phone support guy, I don’t like getting yelled at or having people get pissed at me for something that isn’t my fault. I like to think that I am a very nice guy when I deal with service professionals. They take a lot of crap because their employers don’t back them up, or kowtow to the customer, or because things just suck. Like I said, I try to be nice to them and I try not to be an asshole customer. But this time, I completely pretty much snapped. Two missed closing dates, and with a physics teacher, it’s tough to find subs and they need mucho advance notice. The seller was badgering our attorney for the commitment letter, which as yet was not present, and the attorney and realtor were in turn badgering the guy. He had given us his own timeframes that he didn’t adhere to - I wasn’t dictating them to him, he offered. I basically blew my top in a voice mail, telling him that he had about 30 seconds on his next call to assure me that this was a typo and would be fixed.
He assured me it would. Assured me as of 1/7.
Since then, it has of course not been fixed, despite numerous “It will be fixed TODAY, guaranteed” promises. He had our mortgage commitment and it had conditions attached - conditions that we had already fulfilled (they needed copies of recent pay stubs, explanations of debts, etc.) way earlier on in the process. I ask him why they are there, he says he doesn’t know, and it will be fixed. On Wednesday, 1/12, he forwards me an email that he received from PNC’s automated system: “Mortgage #XXXXX, Mylastname/wifelastname, all conditions have been cleared.” My reply: “So does that mean we’re ready to go to closing?” No response to that.
Of course, that night, I got a call from PNC Mortgage customer service to walk me through said conditions and what I needed to do. “But I already talked to Jake. He said they were clear. He forwarded me a PNC internal email saying they were clear.” OF COURSE they weren’t clear on their end. Best part? When I told her that I didn’t need to do any of this, she said that she was sending it to the loan processor who would call me back to discuss closing terms. At a full percentage point higher APR. And with a principal that would be about $10,000 more than I was hoping to go for.
So, today, January 18th, where do we stand? Jake has still not told me that the conditions were cleared for good, we have received no correction to our rate or total mortgage amount, our closing date has still not been scheduled, and our attorney and realtor are still taking flak from the seller.
There’s not much our attorney can do to compel the guy, since they haven’t given any guarantees nor have they committed directly to any deadlines. I’ve been playing phone tag with Jake’s branch manager, because he’s too incompetent to return my emails or at least say “I’ll have to get back to you tomorrow - today is looking terrible, but I’ll do my best.”
I work in services, albeit a different form of services, and if I operated like this - either my competence was so low or I missed so many deadlines - or if my company’s back end operated like this, I would have been canned and/or my company gone out of business.
tl;dr- PNC Mortgage sucks as a company, Jake at the Fords branch (let me know if you are going for a mortgage, I’ll tell you if you have Jake or not) is a moron who promises what he can’t deliver, never says that something can’t be done in order to set realistic expectations, and he’s left us hanging so much that I have zero trust in him as a person or an employee. They screwed up their own rate lock and have yet to correct it - a $36,000 mistake over the life of the loan.
I hope nobody else ever has to go through this.
I have been banking with PNC Bank since August 2000, when I opened a student checking account with them. I have had checking, savings, money market, and credit card accounts with them since then and have been extremely satisfied. Their customer service people are available 24-7, they are Americans in America, they are knowledgeable and helpful, and since I'm a phone/remote IT guy I make sure to talk to their managers to praise especially helpful or saved-my-ass moments. I like to think that they're a good company to do business with. They'll call me if they see weird transactions to verify if my card has been compromised. If I lost or stole a card, I had another one the next business day after I called in about it.
When it came time to look for houses, Chris and I stopped in to the PNC Mortgage branch in Fords, NJ in October. We met with Jake (name changed) to go over details. We'd brought along pay stubs, our 2009 tax return, copies of our credit scores that I'd just pulled, and other sundry financial details. Jake was very helpful and ran the numbers, quoting us a mortgage APR of 4.7% for an FHA loan. Later, once we made an offer on a house which we opted not to pursue, he gave us closing cost estimates and loan life cost estimates for FHA. They were a bit high, and Jake offered to get us in on a conventional 30-year mortgage. It was a lot better in terms of costs and the APR was 4.375%. It was a lot better. He was doing a good job looking out for us, we thought.
Mid-November came, and we had an accepted offer on a house in Union, with the offer itself being accepted around 11/16. It was a really good deal - well within our budget, nice place, clean, well kept, not too much wrong with it. Both we and the seller wanted to close by the end of the year - the seller wanted to avoid 2011 changes to the estate tax, and we wanted to claim the home on our 2010 taxes (Chris’ income was low due to her being a Rutgers TA for most of the year; it would be advantageous to have homeowners’ standard deductions to increase our refund). Jake said we should definitely be able to close by 12/31. Our realtor and attorney said it would be tough but doable.
As we proceeded with the home inspection, we kicked off the loan application process. He requested further paperwork, including statements from one of Chris' brokerage accounts. The brokerage account had gotten a statement returned, so as a security feature, they locked it down. It took us a week and a half as we sorted out home-inspection issues, and Jake was more than patient but the process couldn’t move forward without at least the statement. The funds we could get later.
We got him the Vanguard statement on 12/13, and he ordered the appraisal. That was done by 12/17. The inspection issues we were sorting out, and Jake said that we were still on track to close. We had already made a standard 10% deposit and had the funds ready to cover the remaining 10%. A 20% deposit means you don’t have to pay Private Mortgage Insurance (PMI), which means you don’t have to pay $100ish extra per month since you have such low equity in the house to start (not to mention a $2000ish initial premium). In other words, 20% up front saves you TONS down the road. We had no further requirements put upon us by PNC’s mortgage underwriters at that time. We were two weeks from our targeted closing date. We’d hoped for 12/22 but nobody seriously thought we’d close that quickly, given the delays from my Chris' brokerage in getting our access restored. Meanwhile, we locked our rates at 4.375% for 45 days in order to keep that secure before closing.
Christmas came and went. We were constantly emailing Jake to see if there was anything further. He said that we were still waiting on the underwriters to make a decision and issue a commitment letter, after which point we could go to closing. Nothing. We had packed half of our stuff, mostly things we didn’t use so much but also our cooking stuff, spices, etc. We’d left ourselves a week’s worth of clothes in hopes of just making the move over New Year’s weekend. Chris, being a teacher, would have the time off from school to move stuff over.
We’d asked Jake on 12/29 if we should unpack, if Chris should schedule time off - not optimal for a first-year teacher but understandable if it came down to it. He said he’d let us know. 12/30 came, we begged for an update - “I’ll let you know.”
Needless to say, 12/31 came with no closure.
I was not a happy camper at that point. I emailed him again to express my disappointment that he kept us going and hoping with no word as to the fact that it wasn’t going to happen. He apologized profusely, said that he hadn’t heard anything from the underwriters nor were they giving him any callback times. He offered a $500 closing credit - fair enough - and said we should schedule the following Friday to close.
Now, to close, the funds have to actually been released by the bank, which takes about 48 hours after receiving a mortgage commitment. On Wednesday, 1/5, he told us the commitment was still not forthcoming and he’d call me back within 20 minutes with an update to confirm or advise pushing back. That 20 minute deadline that he set for himself came and went. Calls and emails went unanswered that day. On 1/6, he again apologized and said we should reschedule for Monday, 1/10. All right, fine, done.
On 1/7, Friday, I received an email from PNC containing details on how to log on and obtain our mortgage disclosures and application paperwork to sign and return. At this point, I turned pissed off beyond any anger I’ve ever felt before:
-Our rate had gone up a full percentage point from 4.375% to 5.375%
-They had gotten our purchase price wrong - they put it as $289,000 with a $4,000 seller concession towards closing costs when it was really $289,000 with the $4,000 concession
-The incorrect closing cost had thrown off our down payment amount
-They got my wife and my residence history wrong
-Got both our employment histories wrong
-Listed my student loan THREE TIMES as a debt obligation
-Listed our joint credit card account twice and my personal credit card account twice
Now, being a phone support guy, I don’t like getting yelled at or having people get pissed at me for something that isn’t my fault. I like to think that I am a very nice guy when I deal with service professionals. They take a lot of crap because their employers don’t back them up, or kowtow to the customer, or because things just suck. Like I said, I try to be nice to them and I try not to be an asshole customer. But this time, I completely pretty much snapped. Two missed closing dates, and with a physics teacher, it’s tough to find subs and they need mucho advance notice. The seller was badgering our attorney for the commitment letter, which as yet was not present, and the attorney and realtor were in turn badgering the guy. He had given us his own timeframes that he didn’t adhere to - I wasn’t dictating them to him, he offered. I basically blew my top in a voice mail, telling him that he had about 30 seconds on his next call to assure me that this was a typo and would be fixed.
He assured me it would. Assured me as of 1/7.
Since then, it has of course not been fixed, despite numerous “It will be fixed TODAY, guaranteed” promises. He had our mortgage commitment and it had conditions attached - conditions that we had already fulfilled (they needed copies of recent pay stubs, explanations of debts, etc.) way earlier on in the process. I ask him why they are there, he says he doesn’t know, and it will be fixed. On Wednesday, 1/12, he forwards me an email that he received from PNC’s automated system: “Mortgage #XXXXX, Mylastname/wifelastname, all conditions have been cleared.” My reply: “So does that mean we’re ready to go to closing?” No response to that.
Of course, that night, I got a call from PNC Mortgage customer service to walk me through said conditions and what I needed to do. “But I already talked to Jake. He said they were clear. He forwarded me a PNC internal email saying they were clear.” OF COURSE they weren’t clear on their end. Best part? When I told her that I didn’t need to do any of this, she said that she was sending it to the loan processor who would call me back to discuss closing terms. At a full percentage point higher APR. And with a principal that would be about $10,000 more than I was hoping to go for.
So, today, January 18th, where do we stand? Jake has still not told me that the conditions were cleared for good, we have received no correction to our rate or total mortgage amount, our closing date has still not been scheduled, and our attorney and realtor are still taking flak from the seller.
There’s not much our attorney can do to compel the guy, since they haven’t given any guarantees nor have they committed directly to any deadlines. I’ve been playing phone tag with Jake’s branch manager, because he’s too incompetent to return my emails or at least say “I’ll have to get back to you tomorrow - today is looking terrible, but I’ll do my best.”
I work in services, albeit a different form of services, and if I operated like this - either my competence was so low or I missed so many deadlines - or if my company’s back end operated like this, I would have been canned and/or my company gone out of business.
tl;dr- PNC Mortgage sucks as a company, Jake at the Fords branch (let me know if you are going for a mortgage, I’ll tell you if you have Jake or not) is a moron who promises what he can’t deliver, never says that something can’t be done in order to set realistic expectations, and he’s left us hanging so much that I have zero trust in him as a person or an employee. They screwed up their own rate lock and have yet to correct it - a $36,000 mistake over the life of the loan.
I hope nobody else ever has to go through this.