REVIEW

[mitchobrien]

This is NOT a review, this is a PETITION...

On 27th September, Dr Mindbender82 posted an entry to the Poetry Community entitled "Christ is on the TV"...for those of you who havent seen it I say have a look, oh and be warned about its content, because what Dr Mindbender doesn't say beforehand is that he has included pornographic images as part of it

Comments

[dr_mindbender82]

Okay, I'll tag the pieace, I've already put a warning on it.

The ego isn't ego directly, is this sense of being attacked constantly.

MG put up an anonomous feed back thread, and people have done nothing but slag me out calling me a mutant intellect, and a freak brain. (41 comments after some one raised the inital view of people defending and slagging me)

I've been attacked in my theo group, and in EDFD. I wrote a poem about being a big brother and some dude said I should pumping gas for a living cos I did'nt belong at uni.

To me this just seemed like another attack, and I am sick to death of it.

I don't know if people genrally don't like me cos I speak my mind, or cos I come from a poor background, or their jelous for some stupid reason cos they think I've got some mutant abilty, or that i'm somehow 'fucking up the bell curve' which keeps coming up in class and on line in the feed back forums.

So you can undertand why i reacted the way I did, even after I went to the extent of expaining the poem, and all I get is "I don't care, I don't care, I don't care" type of crap.

I don't go out of my way to attack anybody, or insut anyone, I normally jsut keep to myself at uni, and baring the think tank i tired to put together, don't hardly communicate with anyone, but people always take offence for some reason.

[maxine_kauter]

i think what's always important when you come up against someone is to not introduce every past issue you've had into the conversational process. it's important to focus on the issue at hand, in this case, that mitch had a legitimate concern about the validity of posting explicit material onto an open forum without affording anyone the opportunity to choose not to view it.
ego is good, every artist needs it in spades or they will never listen to themselves, but it is also important to admit when someone has a valid point.
choose your battles i guess. mitch is not every person who's ever attacked you and micheal does not speak on behalf of all members of the group. while he may give you kudos for a piece, this is not a licence to disregard anyone else's valid input.
i think the piece is great. it didnt offend me, it stimulated (bad choice of word) me. i think it will be an awesome work.
as for people disliking you... who cares really. don't care but do remain true to a standard according to which you yourself expect to be treated.

"take care of yourself... aaaand each other"
wocka wocka!

[michaelgriffith]

HI Mindbender... I sure am glad that Maxine weighed in she has given you excellent support while suggesting that you need to be a little more discrete in an overheated environment. I am sure your work will win through in the end but you need to be a little more aware of how people can be distressed and alienated by things that shock...
MG

[mitchobrien]

You know what champ all you've done since I put up what I thought is go on a personal attack about me and my short sightedness and the fact that I am somehow unenlightened because I can't see the artistic merit in your work...and after at no point did I say I didn't find it quite ingenious and noteworthy...my problem was simply that my computer is in the middle of a room in the middle of my house, and when images like that pop up on a common community board (and thus my friends page), artistic merit or not they are in plain sight of my twelve year old little sister, who doesn't deserve to be subjected to such imagery, and I won't accept that she has to be simply because you or anyone is expressing yourself...

If you wanna insult me fine, if that makes you feel somehow more enlightened then go for it, I can take a few insults...what I can't take is that when I ask someone for some courtesy for the likes of my little sister that he jumps up and down and makes it all about how in his little world he's so much more artistic than the likes of someone trying to look after the innocence of those close to him...

[dr_mindbender82]

SO the basis of your argument was 'hey Timb, I have to do my LJ work in the lonugeroom and my little sister can see some of the images, do you mind putting a cover on them for us?"

To which I would have said "Sure, I got a little ten year old brother, i know where you are coming from no probs"

Instead you ranted left and right about the decency of the poem, how it was smut, and so on, then started a petition against me. Your whoel argument was to take the poem off the poetrycom because you thought it was indecent and to which you got people to follow you, and undersuch pretence you managed to get my poem LJ tagged on THAT SIMPLE VIEW.

Your argument was that it was offensive, and offensive to you, and now you decide to change your argument because your orignal point dos'ntm ake sense in a wider context.

If the reason you honestly don't wnat it on there is because of your sister, then there are no problems. You could have said that from the start instead of wirting your own little declaration of war.

[mitchobrien]

Mate I have been unreasonably polite throughout this whole thing, have taken insult after insult from you and not offered back anything more than a simple "yes your piece has merit but I should not have to have it shoved down my (or anyone else's) throat"...I never ranted about the decency of the poem, I ranted about the decency of unsavoury images (even those with artistic merit) being placed in a public forum.

But you know what everytime myself or anyone else posted something that didn't agree with you you came back with a smart-ass comment designed to stroke your own ego - maybe the reason people are always complaining about you is clear to everyone except dr mindbender himself...

[dr_mindbender82]

"I got an idea...how bout you DON'T put those kind of images up in the poetry community where people have to look at them without even having to click on your journal buddy?"

Here you are blatantly telling me what to do.

"Do I wanna be confronted with that when I look at my friends page?"

Here you saying your opinon is better than mind, hence the condesending attitude. You are saying "I don't want to be confronted with this, so you should take it off.

The whole basis of your argument was you telling me what to do because you didn't like the poem, you based this soley on your idea of 'common decency'

"...you wanna post that fine, do it on your own LJ only!"

Again you are telling me what to do. You are trying to issue your will over mine, you are trying to control my art work and my expression of that art work by the sole reasoning of what YOU find offensive.

"You wanna express yourself then go ahead and do it. You feel the need to post gratuitous images then go ahead and do it - but for God's sake do it in the privacy of your own journal and not in the public community where everyone, like it or not, has to look at it!"

Again you assume the role of genius loci, that you have some god given right to say what can and can't go on LJ regardless of my own explination. It is you who attacked me, you didn't ask, you told me what I could and could not do within LJ, and when i responded in a way you did noty liek YOU started a petition against me because YOU could not get your own way.

"I am not interested in your explanation of what you are talking about...I am interested in fulfilling the criteria of Michael's LJ component, and with not having to put up with that kind of filth while I'm doing it."

And finally you disregarded all or any context for rational discussion on the artwork by simply leveling it as filth. You refused to debate on rational grounds at any time simply issuing your view point with no compramise. People are either with you or against you.

So I didn't play by your rules, so I didn't decide to be flat out against you. I did my own thing, and now, finally you are upset about it. I turned your debate into an extension of the art work.

You initated the whole debate by trying to instil your will not my art work through morals, and therby control the poetry community. I wasn't goig to argue against you becuase there was no point, you picked the debate, you picked the argument, nothing I could have said would have changed your point of view.

I did'nt play by your rules I played by my own, and now your upset about it. Once again, how is that my fault?

[clarebear_g]

I don't think Mitch was trying to attack you personally. It was just the images. If anyone else had put up the same images I'm sure he would have complained in that circumstance too.
I don't know you, but I am sorry you get hurt by people, sometimes people just have a personality clash or are misunderstood and thats the way it goes. We live in a country where we have freedom of speech and should feel free to express our art but I don't think that means we can ignore the way other people feel. If everyone treated each other as they would like to be treated I think the world would be a better place.
(Thats what I think anyway)