and so it begins...
My name's JenMarie and I'm going into my 5th year/BFA candidate at the Cleveland Institute of Art, where I will be attaining a BFA in Painting in May of 2009. This is a really crucial point in my life and career! I need to be thinking about the work I'm making, as I approach my BFA thesis. Also in the process, is.....dun dun dun...grad school. I
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my name is vincent and im happy to have found your postings... while furiously painting in our studios we may feel alone in our grandiose pursuits of prestigious MFA's, but the more I research, and chat with other artists, the more I allow myself to understand we are not. Im a few years older than you im sure, but regardless im in the same boat searching for the same destination. I graduated with a BFA in interdisciplinary studio art from Florida State University in 2003, im 27, and would like to be a candidate for an MFA by fall of 2009. Like you, I have searched and researched ENDLESSLY online, visited MANY MANY programs, requesting info from a myriad of schools, spending endless nights thinking about where I want to be, who I want to study with, how much studio space I want, how much debt im willing to incur, what I want my statements to say, who I want recommendations from, etc. etc. - ive been doing this for almost a year and it still continues. I consider and revise my schooling options EVERY DAY, and pretty soon I think I will just apply to about 37 mfa programs and call it quits! What im looking for in a Grad program is an interdisciplinary structure, a faculty that produces interesting, relevant and unique work, close proximity (if not DIRECTLY within) a major city or art center, large studio space, LOTS OF GRANT/FELLOWSHIP etc. opportunities, a wide variety and constant influx of visiting artists, critics and gallery reps, as well as a program that stresses and truly directs the way to how to write strong residency and grant proposals and aspects of Business art issues (im sure you are already receiving this at Cleveland A.I.)
My top choices right now which have not really changed much are: (really in no particular order)
1.)RISD
2.)YALE
3.)Tyler (even though, like you, I HATE the idea of shared studios, WTF is that?)
4.)MICA (although when I visited I KNOW i will have ABSOLUTELY no life whatsoever if I attend either Hoffberger or Mt. Royal cuz its WAY intense i felt and so sayeth the current students)
5.)VCU (headed up by Richard Roth = MAJOR contacts MAJOR +)
6.)Hunter
AND now for the programs I think i would be WAY happier at cuz they are actually set up the way I desire my MFA to be because I want freedom to take courses as I see fit without any curriculum requirements hindering me:
1.)Cranbrook (open curriculum)
2.)MassArt (open curriculum)
3.)School of the Museum of Fine arts Boston (open curriculum)
4.)Minneapolis College of Art and Design (open curriculum)
I am also considering other really strong programs that would be way more affordable and rigorous and exciting like:
- Ohio State univ.
- Univ. of Tennessee Knoxville (amazing faculty work, very exciting - and if you have never been to Knox. its awesome and very close to some amazing places like Gatlinburg T.N., Boone N.C., and Asheville N.C.)
- Univ. of Texas Austin (Austin is ABSOLUTELY amazing and the studio spaces are HUGE)
- Univ. of Georgia
- Univ. of Indiana Bloomington (this program is supposed to be one of the top painting programs in the country although looking at the faculty portfolios, I was NOT impressed, but im still going to visit it)
- Univ. of Kansas
- SUNY Buffalo
- Univ. of Florida (pretty intense program, Prof. by the name of Richard Heipp has amazing work)
- Univ. of South Florida ( Tampa is awesome and they allow students to work at the prestigious GraphicsStudio Tampa which brings MAJOR artists from all over the world and you get to work with them and do shows etc.)
- S.C.A.D. (Low ranking but unfortunately, no matter how you slice it, Savannah Georgia is one of the COOLEST places on this planet, the facilities are AMAZING( (grad studios a little small)), SO MANY mediums and departments of art in which you can take classes, Mountains and beach both in close proximity, and Charleston ((one of the other COOLEST places on earth)) only 1hr45mins away, plus the faculty are extremely caring and enthusiastic, and exhibition opportunities is limitless at SCAD)
Im sure that NO MATTER where I go I will make the program perfect for me (As im sure you will as well) and we get the most out of it that we want - post some photos of your work - il do the same - keep in touch
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I did actually post some work in my most recent entry....it was a preselection for my portfolio...the pics are under the lj cut.....though I only seemed to sift through 8 pieces that seemed worthy...kind of got me worried......let me know what you think. also www.missjenmarie.com....i have all my work on there.
have you visited risd? (ive heard so many mixed things about the way to "do" things) what do you think?
i have similar interests as you in looking for a school/program except i dont mind if its not interdisiplinary....i actually would prefer it strongly focused on painting and painting issues. which is why im strongly looking into saic's painting program as well as the hoffberger's painting school at mica. those are my top two for sure. but of course...yale........robert storr is amazing, but i feel like it's a long shot but alas i'll try. i met him at the cleveland public library at a talk, he really has some great ideas on mfa education and painting.
let me know what you think of my work i've selected for my portfolio thus far, i'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts and recommendations on if i left something worthwhile out.
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for me im thinking...not necessarily in order
1. cranbrook
2. mica- hoffberger school of ptg.
3. school of art institute of chicago
4. virginia commonwealth university
5. suny purchase
6. savannah college of art and design or carnegie melon or mcad.....i can't decide!
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Thank you for your thoughts it's a real help!
You know, I really like what you were saying about Hunter, that grads many times get noticed and picked up by collectors, galleries, this is important to me. It's as important to me as studying with the right people.
In light of that, my thoughts, can you tell me your thoughts on the two schools bellow?
virginia commonwealth university
suny purchase
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...Ah geezz sorry, I'm just learning how to navigate this blog stuff but, I took some time to check it out and found your entries. Thank you for doing all that work. I'll read more then get back to you.
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WELL, my list has DRASTICALLY changed. I decided about a month ago to say Screw It, and Im moving to New York City and im only applying to a couple schools. #1 is Hunter because ive been obsessed with it for a long time and its the best education I can possibly get and its CHEAP and the studio space provided is the largest of any MFA program available, and its in a giant warehouse in Times Square. #2 is PRATT followed in no particular order by Brooklyn college, Parsons, Possibly NYU and Cranbrook, which if I get in there then my NYC plans will have to change also - then Im going to apply to 2 in-state Florida programs as my ultra safety backup schools. I want it, and I want it big and I figure why not go for it and do it now - move to the city and study and meet and work with all the important people etc etc.
Ive aligned myself with a small group of artists and a young curator and we call ourselves ART Rx and we are ROCKING AND ROLLING bigtime, ive had like 5 shows in the last couple months and we are getting noticed by major press and it is awesome... our 1st page of our website went up TONIGHT so check it out www.artrxart.com they are moving with me to NYC and we are going to take the city by storm.(i know, i know, it sounds lame and artistically utopian, BUT it really feels like an ACTUAL reality/possibility!)
Its good to hear from you, glad to see you are still going strong and not totally going crazy, ive approached that status MANY times and im kinda behind a bit with all my application processes just because of everything thats been going on recently, but im getting on it again as we speak.
Write me back soon - hope all is well - talk to you later when im not trying to hold my eyes open from lack of sleep!! ive been running around like a chicken with my head cut off with all thats been goin on, im waking up in like 5 hours to go install 2 shows and then another show on Oct. 17th! its exciting but WHEW.............
ok, Talk to you soon!
Vincent
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I am a new comer to this site but, I have some questions for you.
Can you tell me anything about Hunter, NYU and Brooklyn College? I too want to be in NYC and still figuring out which schools to apply to. Last week I did check out Carnegie Mellon on line, from what you say it definitely would not be for me.
Unfortunately, I have not had the time to see any of the schools yet.
Let me know your thoughts...
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First of all, hello, and welcome!
I visited NYU, and im on the fence as to whether or not I will be applying. I felt very comfortable in the Fine Arts building and loved the people I met, however, Im an interdisciplinary artist who works in VERY large scale. So, my one concern about NYU is size of studio space for Graduate students, its small and non-secure. BUT, if you do not need tons of studio space APPLY to NYU, its just another possible school that can put you in one of the greatest neighborhoods in manhattan, its FANTASTIC, and the school is obviously reputable and great.
HUNTER - I plan to visit their program in a month, but have been in close correspondence with faculty and a girl who now works on staff who graduated there with an MFA last year. Ive been OBSESSED with this program for quite some time and my questions were affirmatively answered by this previous student, i will share them with you. Supposedly the studio spaces are MASSIVE, she said this is true, her space as a Grad was 24ft. by 18ft. with lofted ceilings and some spaces were smaller than hers and some bigger. Only three programs I have visited had studio space even REMOTELY close to this - RISD(studios HUGE,naturally lit,FULLY secure,private,BRILLIANT school, Providence is AMAZING), U.C.L.A.(HUGE studios,artificially lit,soaring ceilings, secure, most private, amazing school), and S.F.A.I.san fran art institute(MOST amazing building for studios VERY secure LARGE studios, some lockable but some shared) - The point of my tangent is to say that these places had amazing facilities, but I do not think they were QUITE as big as Hunter's spaces - plus, the warehouse building which holds the studios is Located in TIMES SQUARE - is there ANY better place for contemporary influence/motivation/inspiration??!!! another HUGE PLUS - Hunter is a C.U.N.Y. school so NY state residents can earn an MFA for about $7000 a year, i know your jaw just dropped because thats unheard of for any school let alone such a HIGH profile program. Out of staters can go for about $15000 a yr. I believe, now remember, this DOESNT include meals or housing which is a BIG expense in NYC especially if you want to try to live in Manhattan and not a borough. Im talking LOW end $1800-$2000 a month if YOURE LUCKY to live in a 300squareft. studio apt. in Manhattan and the other boroughs you can get a bigger albeit not-as-nice place for about $1500-$2000. Now maybe you are filthy rich and in that case NONE OF THIS MATTERS TO YOU!!!! if so BRAVO, i hope to meet you someday and mooch off your riches!! Just Kidding of course.
Brooklyn college - dont know much about this school, i will be visiting it in a month - it has a decently reputable program and if you are like me you research ALL professors for ALL the programs you are and are not applying to to see where they got their educations - lots of painting Profs have gone to brooklyn college. It is also a C.U.N.Y. program so the more affordable tuition applies. It is listed as having one of the TOP most beautiful campuses in the U.S. if aesthetics is your thing.
HONESTLY, REALLY consider PRATT, i got in 2 years ago and when i visited loved it except for the size of the studios which were kinda small but ALL were PRIVATE, LOCKABLE secure VERY well lit and the campus is GORGEOUS and well located in beautiful Clinton Hill Brooklyn(its actually where il hopefully be living when I move to NYC if I cannot find Manhattan digs) and PRATT's reputation is second to none even though it doesnt rank high on US news World Report, but who gives a SH!# about that report anyway. The school is expensive like NYU or Columbia or Parsons or SVA, but its good. The overall art facilities are also EXCEPTIONAL.
Now a couple questions for you:
1. are you applying for BFA study or MFA? (if MFA, where did u get undergrad?)
2. What other schools are on your list of potentials?
3. Whats your medium?
4. Where can I view a body of your work?
Hope I helped a bit.... sorry for my DISSERTATION sized reply, thats how I do.... please feel free to contact me with additional questions or concerns cuz ive been to TONS of places and researched EVERY friggin program - look forward to hearing from you! Be well stay focused.
Vincent
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I am sorry I've not answered you yet, I have been just crazy busy!
As for your questions:
I am applying for MFA.
I got my Under grad from College of St. Rose.
I am an a painter
My list of schools to apply to are;
Yale, PennDesign, (maybe New Paltz), MICA(Maryland), Columbia, School of the Art Institute of Chicago, Tyler, Hunter, Boston univ., Pratt, and Indiana univ.
Anyway, your info for me was/is very helpful!, Thank you. To follow up, I sent several emails to Brooklyn College with no response and also I cannot find any work either student or faculty to view...what is up with that. But you can of course look up the faculty names on Google image and find some stuff but what about the students? Strange, I have head good things about this school but I will not even consider applying to any school if the program adviser or other faculty do not have the curiosity to at least acknowledge my emails. So, they are off my list. Let me know if you visit them and what your thoughts are of them.
So, you like Hunter? Have you visited them yet? Let me know how you like them. I have herd a lot of good things about Hunter. I will apply to them. Also, I have been considering Indiana Univ. because I feel they have an excellent program in spite of being in the middle of no where.
Now I am thinking I should have some "safety" schools but what schools would they be??? Do you have any thoughts on this?
How about Mass Art. not necessarily a safe school just wondering if you knew anything about them in general?
OK let me know how it is with you.
Be Well,
Joe
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Great to hear from you, and excited to hear you are busy... those of us who take it seriously should be, so Bravo.
My first thought while reading your response was that you have not chosen any Mid and Safe schools, which at the end of your message you addressed. This is critical, because those top schools have such ridiculously LOFTY and fickle decision making tactics that no matter WHO you are and HOW GOOD you are, it is not a guaranteed acceptance. Take it from someone who (and I state this in NO way to sound pompous or bragging) has 5 and a half years experience writing my own curriculum and instructing master classes to students all over South Florida as a Freelancer, was the top graduate of my 2003 B.F.A. class at Florida State University with a 4.0 GPA, and has an Extremely Strong connection to myself, my art and my ability to write about my art and others - and I applied 2 years ago to RISD, Columbia, SVA, Boston University, University of Miami, PRATT and SCAD and was denied by ALL except PRATT and SCAD - PRATT gave me NO financial support of ANY kind and IM poor, and SCAD gave me $7,000 toward a $45,000 education. So, needless to say I did not matriculate to either of those schools at that time.
I HAVE been working my ass off though this last 2 years, producing work, gaining more self-directed experience and knowledge, and mounting MANY exhibitions, and so I am very confident that this will pay off with an acceptance to some schools of my choice, but there is still NO guarantees. Right now my list is as follows:
1.)Hunter (REACH to MID)
2.)PRATT (REACH to MID)
3.)Parsons (REACH to MID)
4.)NYU and Brooklyn (MIDS)
5.)Cranbrook (REACH)
6.)U.G.A.{University of Georgia} (Mid to SAFE)
7.)SCAD (MID)
8.)U.S.F. {University of South Florida} (MID to SAFE)
9.)and last BUT not least, my old alma matter, F.S.U. {Florida State University} (SAFE)
This list has some room for expansion or reduction, but its pretty airtight -
Ive been through the process of applying and communicating with all the TOP schools, and honestly, it costs around $80 to $100 just to apply to these schools, and the chances are just too slim for me - especially when I know that my education from FSU as a BFA student was better in most every way than a lot of my high school friends who went to MAJOR art programs and spent TONS of money, and mine was FREE. NOW, if you have a connection or an "IN" at any of those TOP programs then HELL YES GO FOR IT... It will pay off if you take EVERY advantage along the way of what you are getting and who you are meeting etc.
and..... If Money is not an issue for you then apply to EVERY school that interests you.
What is your resume like? How are your grades? How much other experience do you have? have you shown your work? are you skilled in the "business" aspects of the art life and world? How old are you?
These are all factors to consider for chance of acceptance, and if you give me some details I can really help you weigh options for some other MID and SAFE schools to apply to, you have a GREAT lineup of TOP programs!
Get back to me soon, hope all is well - Keep feeling good and having fun and STAY FOCUSED!
Vincent
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Good to hear from you!
Well, quite honestly I feel as you about the chances of getting into the school I have listed. But I really don't want to wind up in some second rate school where I will not get the sort of interaction and growth-development that I want. I know this is not what you are saying but this is my fear of "safe" schools. And I have no idea what would be safe any way.
What I want from a grad program is ultimately to develop as fully as possible my work i.e. my ideas, my technique if you will. I'm a painter and I want to push this as far as I can in grad school. I want to have regular interaction with faculty and students as a way toward this goal. In addition, and more on the practical side, I want to make the necessary contacts that will help me to show and teach after graduation. Teaching is important to me so I want to go where I will have a good chance for receiving an assistantship. I think it’s important to get a TA position as it will give me necessary experience prior to graduation and before I apply to teaching positions at other colleges. As far as location is concerned I want to stay in the northeast with the only possible exception of Chicago and Indiana schools. And in light of what I say about contacts for showing NYC seems to be the best area.
I have been out of school for about twenty years now and have been working on my work steadily. At the same time I have work a lot of jobs and taught kids at various times. My grades were as yours. The last two years I have only shown a few times and the past eight months or so I have only focused on developing my work and not shown but still I think my resume is respectable. The concern I now see is with my portfolio. In the passed several months my work has taken several turns of development so I am concerned that this may be viewed as inconsistencies but they are not!
OK, so, in light of what I want from a school what would you consider to be “MID” to “SAFE” schools I should consider? And did you ever make it to Brooklyn College if so what did you think? What about Hunter did you visit them too?
OK, later and Be Well,
Joe
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I havnt made it to NYC to visit brooklyn or Hunter... hopefully I will be financially able in the next two months - had a big show last friday and sold a piece, so im at least on my way!!
It sounds like your grades were high, and you have gained a lot of valuable, necessary experience in both teaching and networking and business aspects of art, so that is good - PLUS, what you have working for you BIGTIME is your age; if you have been out of school for 20 years or so you must be in your late 30's give or take and so grad programs will LOVE YOU - unlike me who they consider green (a little bit f-ing retarded! in terms of being accepted or not if you ask me) because i only just turned 28. You will have fantastic chances getting into high caliber programs ....
With that said, i again stress GREATLY the importance of having a well balanced application list - My high school College counselor, who was one of the top counselors in the country, told me if you can afford to apply to a bunch of schools DO IT, apply to them all - if you can only afford a few, like in my case, apply to 3 REACH caliber schools, 3 MID caliber schools, and 3 SAFE schools. SO, you decide where you fit and I will give you some jumping off points in terms of program variety and strength.
First thing to do is determine what type of program has your painting style as their strong direction - by this I mean if you go to Indiana University, by my calculations you BETTER be a LIFE painter, or a painter of SOME SORT of realism - I would Never apply there because im as Abstract as you get - If you are an abstract painter, better schools would be Virginia Commonwealth, under the wing of the AMAZING Richard Roth, Hunter College, YALE etc.
Do some research into the way the students work looks - the student work to me is more important than the Prof work, because if the student work is in your style and is strong, then that means the program is FEEDING that strength and supporting it, which is what I want. Look at the strength of the Student work at Virginia Commonwealth, it'l BLOW YOUR MIND.
You want to get a T.A. position in Grad school - GOOD luck at programs like YALE, SAIC, RISD any HIGH END program - they dont hand out many, and when they do you may get ONE class to teach in your SECOND year as a grad student. Most programs DO NOT hand out T.A. positions to first year Grad students
Dont worry about NOT receiving a STRONG education at MID or SAFE schools - you will not apply to any MIDs/SAFEs that have crap programs, it just means they are a bit more affordable and do NOT have a "their crap doesnt stink" attitude.
HIGH END SCHOOLS:
1.)YALE - #1 for ANY type of painter and contacts all over the world and NYC and GREAT faculty, also around $52,000 a year - and you wont get a scholarship unless you are GOD or a minority of GODLIKE talent, that is IF you even make it to the second round of acceptance decisions.
2.)School of the Art Institute of Chicago - a GREAT school for all types of art and styles with GREAT faculty, VERY expensive, difficult to get in
3.)RISD(Rhode Island School of Design) - for a long time this was my #1 choice because Providence is beautiful and the facilities are UNPARALLELED
4.)U.C.L.A.(University of California Los Angeles) - FANTASTIC program and facilities, and a state program so way more affordable, very connected in terms of NETWORKING
5.)Columbia - If you are filthy rich and want to be in NYC, apply here, i did and they laughed at me
I will continue in another post cuz there isnt enough room...
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GOOD MID SCHOOLS:
1.)HUNTER - This is my #1 regardless of whether I get a chance a chance to visit or not - its Nickname is the Affordable Columbia - Largest studio spaces of any Grad program
2.)PRATT - awesome school in Beautiful Clinton Hill Brooklyn, great facilities and faculty, I got in here, my only qualm is the slightly small studio spaces
3.)Tyler - In Philadelphia, which is AMAZING, great faculty, VERY high end and a state program so slightly more affordable, BUT SHARED STUDIOS BOOOOOO!! but if you dont mind that then consider it....
4.)Virginia Commonwealth - Excellent program with great faculty and students, good proximity to NYC and the Most Affordable HIGH END program in the country aside from Hunter- you should DEFINITELY consider this school
5.)U.G.A.(University of Georgia) - this could be consider a mid or safe school, either way, its a great program with good facilities good faculty and in a great area of georgia and state school so affordable - its like #4 in the country for printmaking and in the top 25 for Grad programs in general
6.)Brooklyn College - not much to say here since I havnt visited but a bunch of people cant be wrong AND a BUNCH of artists and profs have gone here
7.)ANY S.U.N.Y.and C.U.N.Y. schools like New Paltz, Buffalo, Stony brook etc - they are all the State University and City University of New York programs and they are all pretty good actually, and if you live in New York then you can get in easier and go for very CHEAP
8.)PennDesign would be a good MID school for you I guess, ive never visited, but you cant go wrong with Pennsylvania Education System - I have Family in Philly and all the schools are Great, not too sure about Art Programs, but I spent a short amount of time attending Dickinson college in Carlile and it was a good school just not for me
SAFE SCHOOLS:
1.)S.C.A.D. - this is always my #1 choice for safe school cuz its a legitimate ART school and program, excellent facilities and Savannah Georgia is one of my FAVORITE places on earth, if you have never been GO VISIT NOW
2.)For me, my other two SAFE schools are my In-State programs at F.S.U. and U.S.F. because they are the two strongest ART programs in the state of Florida and I received my BFA from FSU so I know the Program is AMAZING - FOR YOU, choose a couple of In-State programs in whatever state you live in, and if you are fortunate enough to live in New York or Pennsylvania, the YOU ARE SET.....
There are so MANY other choices, but that kinda keeps it in the area you want to be in - other great programs that could be MIDs or SAFEs are University of Wisconsin Madison, MCAD(Minneapolis College of Art and Design), University of Illinois Urbana-Champagne, Ohio State university, MCA(Memphis College of Art), University of Texas Austin - check all those out and get back to me
Hope you are well - write back soon - AND, where can I see your work?
Be well
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I'm sorry I have not thanked you for sending me all this info. but, thank you!!! It has been a big help. You did a lot of work to fill me in and I appreciate it!
I have been so busy with application stuff, work and family I've had no time to catch up on emails.
I will write you more later but I did add some safer schools to my list, New Paltz, Brooklyn College but I am not so sure they are safe but we will see. As far as age is concerned I think if your one work is not of "good" caliber then it won't matter if they are a 100 years old, they won't get in. I don't think these search committees care much about prospective students at least not at the point when they are reviewing applications. For me, my work has taken many changes as I have been moving in a new direction in the past year or so and I don't know how it will be received. But I don't feel waiting another year is an option for me.
I don't have a place where you can see my work yet but I'll let you know. I don't want to put them up here anyway.
Take care of yourself and let me know what you are up to when you can.
Be Well,
Joe
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