RE: New Alison newsliz_marcsNovember 7 2015, 12:18:29 UTC
I kind of agree with you both.
As it was, J/B fell into that category. They got together on screen, then were FWB on the downlow, and then were brought back after we were shown time and again that they were very definitely over.
For J/A, though, I can't help but think about what James Roday said about Psych as it was winding down: At some point you know when you're closer to the end than the beginning, and at some point you know it's pretty much the end.
Dan pretty much knew when S6 started that Community was much closer to the end than the beginning. If it wasn't the last season, it was close to it. He was bleeding cast members. He was convinced he was going to lose at least one more. By mid-season, he pretty much knew that S6 was it.
And that's where I kind of have my own issue in that he waited to address the elephant in the room until literally the last minute. In the second-to-last episode Frankie suddenly wants to keep Annie away from Jeff? Ummm, on the basis of what? Outside of a couple of blatant moments, Jeff and Annie didn't seem particularly close, let alone romantically interested in each other.
I can hardly blame people when they claim that the J/A ending came out of the blue. It kind of did. I think it sort of did for even J/A shippers. Go back and look at the episode discussions where we're scratching our heads and acting like Sherlock picking through scraps in trying to figure out when and how the end of S5 would be addressed.
Had J/A hooked up at the end of S1, Annie would've been yet another Slater, a speedbump of the road to J/B.
Had J/A hooked up during S3, then I could kind of see the off-and-on thing happening. In a way, I'm glad they didn't because you know the S4 showrunners would've broken them up like they broke up Britta and Troy. They wanted J/B and didn't seem to like or understand Annie all that much.
But by S5 and S6, it was ridiculous. Going down the J/B path again was nuts when J/B was firmly dead and buried and it was clear in S3 and in S4 (despite the S4 showrunners best efforts) that Jeff had feelings for Annie.
As for Harmon hinting that something will happen down the road, like a movie? Yeah, I have to admit that I'm cynical about that. Considering that he's going to have a cast of thousands (figuratively speaking), I don't see him sparing one second for J/A.
I think the only way we're getting any J/A is if they start the movie already together as a couple so Dan doesn't have to write one word about their relationship. And if that happens, it's 50-50 they'll still be together when the movie ends.
Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but that's how I see it.
While it's true that Dan doesn't owe shippers a damn thing, how he handled the whole J/A aspect is pretty low rent. If he didn't want to go there, fine. But he shouldn't have kept feeding the shippers for six years and he shouldn't be dangling promises in front of the shippers when it's pretty clear he has no intention of keeping them.
If a movie does come out, I'm going to wait and see what other people have to say about it before I plunk down money to see it. And as much as this makes me sound like a crazy shipper, a lack of J/A or negative J/A is going to be a deal-breaker for me. At this point, it's literally the only Community storyline left that I care about, in large part because S6 was, overall, a whole lot of WtF for me.
While I'm glad we got what we got, I'm also a little irritated because I feel like that on this point I was lied to. Every other 'ship got their due. Hell, Troy and Abed got more than their due. But J/A never did and the people who shipped them got looked down on by the writers and possibly even Dan himself.
No, he doesn't own me anything. But at the same time, I don't owe him my eyeballs or my money.
RE: New Alison newsbriefan1972November 7 2015, 15:35:10 UTC
I've been thinking about this a lot (the likelihood of there being any actual J/A in a movie) and I'm pretty much in agreement with you. A movie is going to be such a small and limited window for Dan to write in that I don't see him dedicating much if any time to a ship he was never fully behind in the first place. I don't think he will want to 'waste' a second on Jeff and Annie's relationship status. I think if you go into a movie (assuming it even happens at all) expecting a big J/A payoff, you are setting yourself up for massive disappointment.
RE: New Alison newsjdp1979November 7 2015, 15:58:52 UTC
Is there a movie script yet?
Harmon: There isn't, no. (Laughs.) I'm not going to start writing it because what if I write 20 pages of hot Jeff and Annie action, and then Joel McHale gets hit by a bus. That's 20 pages I can't get back. I could have spent that at the chiropractor.
I don't think it's as bleak as you all make it out to be... Of course I know this doesn't guarantee anything, but I'm remaining firmly on the side of cautious optimism. It seemed to me that the only reason he kept pushing J/A back in S6 was because he felt he couldn't write something good (kicking the can down the road). And when he finally did write something he was so nervous about it that he quit twitter for fear of the backlash. I'm more worried about not getting the movie then I am of not getting some J/A if we get the movie.
RE: New Alison newsbriefan1972November 8 2015, 02:20:46 UTC
Yeah I think we have to worry first about actually getting the movie before we worry about the content of such a film.
jdp1979.....What makes you think that DH will be ready to write something 'good' for Jeff and Annie, at whatever point in the future we get Community, in whatever form it takes?
RE: New Alison newsjdp1979November 8 2015, 08:10:37 UTC
Well that depends on your definition of 'good'. The simple truth of the matter is that the moment these two meet up again they're going to have to address their shared feelings. All they've done now is put a pin in it, but everything is out in the open now, which is a first for them. And whatever your opinion of Dan, he can't and won't simply ignore that.
Why? Well he was the one who brought them to this point. Could he have put them together much sooner? Yes, but he could've also ended it whenever he felt like it. Because really, if he was so convinced that it should've been Britta, he would've gone with Britta. No one was telling him what to do during S5 and S6, all the choices he made were ones he wanted to make.
So I'm 100% convinced that if he puts J/A in the same room in any future content things will happen. Of course if, at the moment he starts writing, he decides that it's not going to work out...
RE: New Alison newsbriefan1972November 9 2015, 11:24:59 UTC
I agree with most of your points and it certainly seems as though Dan can't ignore their situation but I said that prior to S6 and before every S6 episode (he can't possibly ignore them again, can he?) and yet look what we got. Nothing but a tiny scene crammed in at the end of the last ep. So idk...I think DH can very much ignore J/A in a movie; he's already shown a willingness to do so.
RE: New Alison newsjdp1979November 9 2015, 17:36:06 UTC
The difference now is that it's out there. After S5 we all thought Jeff had this big revelation and something was gonna happen, but as it turns out, it wasn't a revelation for him at all. He had kept it to himself for a long time and he kept right on doing that. So there was really only a change for the audience.
Now though, you can't put these two in the same room and have them completely ignore each other and pretend like 613 never happened. That's just bad writing and storytelling. And whatever your feelings about Dan's choices in S6 (and before), it all did make sense eventually. It only took till 613 before he explained Jeff's behavior.
RE: New Alison newsbriefan1972November 10 2015, 12:31:46 UTC
Theoretically you can't ignore them but I'm not sure what will happen once Dan starts writing future Community, if he ever does. In reading various reviews and reddit opinions of 6.13, it seems as though that study room scene between Annie and Jeff had some different interpretations, as often happens with scenes between those two. I get the distinct feeling that many people simply take the scene at purely face value; meaning Jeff says to Annie 'I let you go' and hence, these people think the scene is him fully admitting his feelings but actually letting her go. These folks think it's ended, not agreeing with the generally accepted idea among shippers that the J/A talk in that scene is really the beginning of something, not the end of it. Jeff and Annie are putting a pin in trying 'them'...... At least that's what most of us believe.
I still think it's something DH could back out of or get around if he really wanted to. Not saying he absolutely would, just that it remains a possibility. Let's hope he cares enough about good story telling to explore J/A at least a little bit.
RE: New Alison newsjdp1979November 10 2015, 17:39:15 UTC
Well the same happened with the S5 finale. But that's just fan interpretation. Dan was clear then and he was clear after S6. "Hope, romance and possibility."
He could back out by having them talk and saying it wouldn't work out. But that's still not ignoring it... ;-)
Re: New Alison newsbriefan1972November 10 2015, 17:48:49 UTC
True he could back out of it by having them have a conversation and then decide it wouldn't work out and yes, that's not ignoring it. And I get that. I just think that a lot of people (not necessarily Dan) think that there's no more story to tell with those two and that as of the end of 6.13 they are simply finished.
I agree with you than Dan was pretty clear about them, especially in his post season interviews. And I think we all thought he was quite clear with how the scene was written (as well as their goodbye peck at the airport). But I do think there's a substantial portion of the fan base that is not expecting anything more out of the Jeff/Annie storyline, such as it was.....
RE: Re: New Alison newsbriefan1972November 11 2015, 10:01:22 UTC
I tend to lean that way as well. Honestly, I'm in the camp that finds the likelihood of a movie happening at all, fairly unlikely. I hate to be a neg-head but I can easily see a year or two slipping into five years and there's still no script. At what point will Sony just not give a shit anymore?
But yeah in regards to Jeff and Annie.... If this movie happens at all I can very much envision a scenario where DH doesn't want to spend time on their couple crap; now if we are talking about a few loose episodes that wind up being produced....that's a different story. Then he might do something with them. I just have a feeling that he won't want to deal with them within the limited confines of a 90 minute movie.
All that being said, sure a film version of Community could still happen; I wouldn't be shocked. But I think it needs to happen within the next couple years to have the best chance of moving forward.
RE: Re: New Alison newsliz_marcsNovember 11 2015, 13:09:07 UTC
I wouldn't call you a neg-hed. I'd call you a realist.
I always gave the movie a 50-50 shot at best, and even then I just don't see it going into any kind of wide-release. VOD, at best.
But given the precipitous decline I've been seeing in Harmon's creative endeavors (based on what I've gotten from Rick and Morty fandom, that show is far more on Justin Roiland's creative shoulders than Dan's), I just don't think he has the discipline to actually write the movie, let alone one that would make a lick of sense.
It's kind of interesting that Joel is suddenly mentioning the possibility of a mini-season. I always said the Arrested Development route was far more likely than I movie, but it's kind of surprise to see someone as plugged-in as Joel actually bringing it up multiple times. I just don't see him bringing it up in a vacuum, so I'd guess that at minimum he's talked to the other cast members about it, and most likely someone at Sony.
The issue is where would it end up? Yahoo got burned, I don't see Hulu ponying up the money, and Netflix ain't interested. Amazon Prime? I doubt they'd go for it.
There's always that new pay-level NBC comedy stream Seeso, but yikes! I think most people would refuse to pay and just would pirate the thing. Hell, I would! I'm not paying for streaming services owned by broadcast networks.
RE: Re: New Alison newsaussiefan1November 12 2015, 04:42:03 UTC
Direct to itunes would be a reasonable option. Being completely honest a such as Community with a cult following would very unlikely hold a great deal of commercial appeal outside its fan base. The best way to release it is in a manner that monetizes it best. Releasing directly on to itunes is unprecedented.
RE: Re: New Alison newsaussiefan1December 4 2015, 10:45:56 UTC
Was reading the other day that Youtube may be looking at getting into bidding for exclusive content be it movies or TV. Another option looks to be emerging.
As it was, J/B fell into that category. They got together on screen, then were FWB on the downlow, and then were brought back after we were shown time and again that they were very definitely over.
For J/A, though, I can't help but think about what James Roday said about Psych as it was winding down: At some point you know when you're closer to the end than the beginning, and at some point you know it's pretty much the end.
Dan pretty much knew when S6 started that Community was much closer to the end than the beginning. If it wasn't the last season, it was close to it. He was bleeding cast members. He was convinced he was going to lose at least one more. By mid-season, he pretty much knew that S6 was it.
And that's where I kind of have my own issue in that he waited to address the elephant in the room until literally the last minute. In the second-to-last episode Frankie suddenly wants to keep Annie away from Jeff? Ummm, on the basis of what? Outside of a couple of blatant moments, Jeff and Annie didn't seem particularly close, let alone romantically interested in each other.
I can hardly blame people when they claim that the J/A ending came out of the blue. It kind of did. I think it sort of did for even J/A shippers. Go back and look at the episode discussions where we're scratching our heads and acting like Sherlock picking through scraps in trying to figure out when and how the end of S5 would be addressed.
Had J/A hooked up at the end of S1, Annie would've been yet another Slater, a speedbump of the road to J/B.
Had J/A hooked up during S3, then I could kind of see the off-and-on thing happening. In a way, I'm glad they didn't because you know the S4 showrunners would've broken them up like they broke up Britta and Troy. They wanted J/B and didn't seem to like or understand Annie all that much.
But by S5 and S6, it was ridiculous. Going down the J/B path again was nuts when J/B was firmly dead and buried and it was clear in S3 and in S4 (despite the S4 showrunners best efforts) that Jeff had feelings for Annie.
As for Harmon hinting that something will happen down the road, like a movie? Yeah, I have to admit that I'm cynical about that. Considering that he's going to have a cast of thousands (figuratively speaking), I don't see him sparing one second for J/A.
I think the only way we're getting any J/A is if they start the movie already together as a couple so Dan doesn't have to write one word about their relationship. And if that happens, it's 50-50 they'll still be together when the movie ends.
Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but that's how I see it.
While it's true that Dan doesn't owe shippers a damn thing, how he handled the whole J/A aspect is pretty low rent. If he didn't want to go there, fine. But he shouldn't have kept feeding the shippers for six years and he shouldn't be dangling promises in front of the shippers when it's pretty clear he has no intention of keeping them.
If a movie does come out, I'm going to wait and see what other people have to say about it before I plunk down money to see it. And as much as this makes me sound like a crazy shipper, a lack of J/A or negative J/A is going to be a deal-breaker for me. At this point, it's literally the only Community storyline left that I care about, in large part because S6 was, overall, a whole lot of WtF for me.
While I'm glad we got what we got, I'm also a little irritated because I feel like that on this point I was lied to. Every other 'ship got their due. Hell, Troy and Abed got more than their due. But J/A never did and the people who shipped them got looked down on by the writers and possibly even Dan himself.
No, he doesn't own me anything. But at the same time, I don't owe him my eyeballs or my money.
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Harmon: There isn't, no. (Laughs.) I'm not going to start writing it because what if I write 20 pages of hot Jeff and Annie action, and then Joel McHale gets hit by a bus. That's 20 pages I can't get back. I could have spent that at the chiropractor.
I don't think it's as bleak as you all make it out to be... Of course I know this doesn't guarantee anything, but I'm remaining firmly on the side of cautious optimism. It seemed to me that the only reason he kept pushing J/A back in S6 was because he felt he couldn't write something good (kicking the can down the road). And when he finally did write something he was so nervous about it that he quit twitter for fear of the backlash. I'm more worried about not getting the movie then I am of not getting some J/A if we get the movie.
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jdp1979.....What makes you think that DH will be ready to write something 'good' for Jeff and Annie, at whatever point in the future we get Community, in whatever form it takes?
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Why? Well he was the one who brought them to this point. Could he have put them together much sooner? Yes, but he could've also ended it whenever he felt like it. Because really, if he was so convinced that it should've been Britta, he would've gone with Britta. No one was telling him what to do during S5 and S6, all the choices he made were ones he wanted to make.
So I'm 100% convinced that if he puts J/A in the same room in any future content things will happen. Of course if, at the moment he starts writing, he decides that it's not going to work out...
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Now though, you can't put these two in the same room and have them completely ignore each other and pretend like 613 never happened. That's just bad writing and storytelling. And whatever your feelings about Dan's choices in S6 (and before), it all did make sense eventually. It only took till 613 before he explained Jeff's behavior.
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I still think it's something DH could back out of or get around if he really wanted to. Not saying he absolutely would, just that it remains a possibility. Let's hope he cares enough about good story telling to explore J/A at least a little bit.
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He could back out by having them talk and saying it wouldn't work out. But that's still not ignoring it... ;-)
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I agree with you than Dan was pretty clear about them, especially in his post season interviews. And I think we all thought he was quite clear with how the scene was written (as well as their goodbye peck at the airport). But I do think there's a substantial portion of the fan base that is not expecting anything more out of the Jeff/Annie storyline, such as it was.....
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I just hope the noromo thing for once gets applied across the board instead of selectively.
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But yeah in regards to Jeff and Annie.... If this movie happens at all I can very much envision a scenario where DH doesn't want to spend time on their couple crap; now if we are talking about a few loose episodes that wind up being produced....that's a different story. Then he might do something with them. I just have a feeling that he won't want to deal with them within the limited confines of a 90 minute movie.
All that being said, sure a film version of Community could still happen; I wouldn't be shocked. But I think it needs to happen within the next couple years to have the best chance of moving forward.
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I always gave the movie a 50-50 shot at best, and even then I just don't see it going into any kind of wide-release. VOD, at best.
But given the precipitous decline I've been seeing in Harmon's creative endeavors (based on what I've gotten from Rick and Morty fandom, that show is far more on Justin Roiland's creative shoulders than Dan's), I just don't think he has the discipline to actually write the movie, let alone one that would make a lick of sense.
It's kind of interesting that Joel is suddenly mentioning the possibility of a mini-season. I always said the Arrested Development route was far more likely than I movie, but it's kind of surprise to see someone as plugged-in as Joel actually bringing it up multiple times. I just don't see him bringing it up in a vacuum, so I'd guess that at minimum he's talked to the other cast members about it, and most likely someone at Sony.
The issue is where would it end up? Yahoo got burned, I don't see Hulu ponying up the money, and Netflix ain't interested. Amazon Prime? I doubt they'd go for it.
There's always that new pay-level NBC comedy stream Seeso, but yikes! I think most people would refuse to pay and just would pirate the thing. Hell, I would! I'm not paying for streaming services owned by broadcast networks.
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