Mmm... I always took Jack's "Doctor's honour" line at face value, too, though I don't like how ambiguous it was. How did he rebuild it? If Torchwoods 2-4 were always there, and they weren't destroyed, how was he rebuilding it? Was he part of Torchwood before Torchwood One's fall? If not, what was he doing? And if not, where does he have the power or influence to rebuild it? There's a lot of issues I have with this, and I can't help feeling not all of them will be resolved and they were simply ignored so that RTD could put in a happy line to make the audience believe EVERYONE LURRRRRRVES THE DOCTOR. And it's stupid. And yes, I'm bitter, how could you tell?
I'm in such big trouble. I joined a fic challenge of What did Torchwood do in the No-Longer-Existing Year and now I'm getting the feeling I might have to rewatch LotTL for canon info, but I'm NOT GOING TO. NEVER! NEVAAAR!!!!!!!
Well, Lynda would at least still be alive after crashing through the atmosphere! I just feel really bad for her. And the timeline issue of THAT bugs me too, because by essentially destroying the Fourth Great and Bountiful Empire before it ever existed, HOW MUCH GALACTIC HISTORY WAS CHANGED?!?!? WHAT THE HELL??
And yeah, shooting the paradox machine was kind of like "Why didn't you do that earlier then?" Urgh. I personally think RTD's been kidnapped by aliens and monkeys are currently impersonating him.
Yeah, he so should have teleported with her. For that matter, my friend brought up the good point that they could've grabbed the Doctor and teleported with him as well, since he's still more useful as an old man than without him at all. And yeah, I'm sure being shrunken into Yoda on internatinoal TV creates SUCH faith in him among humans that they'd just go along with Martha's story anyway. Another plot hole: given how old the First Doctor was, how would aging him a hundred years have had that much effect on him?
In regard to 4) Yeah, the Doctor sucks and is so much more emotional over so many of the wrong things in the new series. Has he EVER moped over a companion? And yeah, being the last Time Lord sucks, but still, it's not like he ever liked that many of them to begin with.
Yep, yep, yep, completely agree on Mrs. Saxon and the Jones. They were such a waste of time, and I was hopeful for so much more because Rose's family played such a more prominent role. And Lucy Saxon was cool-ish. We even had a brief conspiracy theory going that she was the Rani for a bit.
YAY! ZERO ZERO ZERO!!!!! Awesome review, basically completely agree. Though reading it makes my blood boil over that episode all over again.
How did he rebuild it? If Torchwoods 2-4 were always there, and they weren't destroyed, how was he rebuilding it? Was he part of Torchwood before Torchwood One's fall? If not, what was he doing? And if not, where does he have the power or influence to rebuild it?
I thought maybe he changed the purpose/intent of, at least, Torchwood Three. I'd love something in the series, saying that the Doctor, if he shows up, is to be treated like a respected adviser or something along those lines, and that Jack's got that for any Torchwood operations going on (2 in Glasgow, if 1 is rebuilt somewhere/somehow, 4 whenever it shows up again). I'd also like some answers to things like, how long has he known about Torchwood, when/how did he join, was it his choice or he wasn't really given one? etc., etc., etc.
There's a lot of issues I have with this, and I can't help feeling not all of them will be resolved and they were simply ignored so that RTD could put in a happy line to make the audience believe EVERYONE LURRRRRRVES THE DOCTOR. And it's stupid. And yes, I'm bitter, how could you tell?
I think you have good reason to be bitter, but then again, I'm bitter too, so you're preaching to the choir. I'd actually like to see more anger from Jack, directed at the Doctor, and they both have to deal with the emotional fallout, then they become really good friends.
I'm in such big trouble. I joined a fic challenge of What did Torchwood do in the No-Longer-Existing Year and now I'm getting the feeling I might have to rewatch LotTL for canon info, but I'm NOT GOING TO. NEVER! NEVAAAR!!!!!!!
How can you watch an episode that never was?
If you know of anyone (won't be me!) who could watch it for you, come up with questions and ask that person to jot down answers for you. Good luck with the fic and give me a link whenever you have to post it!
And yeah, shooting the paradox machine was kind of like "Why didn't you do that earlier then?" Urgh. I personally think RTD's been kidnapped by aliens and monkeys are currently impersonating him.
Yeah. *sigh*
In regard to 4) Yeah, the Doctor sucks and is so much more emotional over so many of the wrong things in the new series. Has he EVER moped over a companion? And yeah, being the last Time Lord sucks, but still, it's not like he ever liked that many of them to begin with.
Doctor 1-7, no, he hasn't ever moped that much, over losing a companion.
YAY! ZERO ZERO ZERO!!!!! Awesome review, basically completely agree. Though reading it makes my blood boil over that episode all over again.
Thank you. :) Glad you enjoyed it and sorry I made your blood boil over The Episode That Never Was.
I vaguely get the feeling I've read your first few paragraphs before, but it might just be my imagination and the fact that we've discussed similar things. In any case, I'm glad you were questioning whether it was the TARDIS or the Doctor that made them go to the future at that point, because I took the Doctor's explanation at face value while, of course, the show later proved you right because the Doctor offered to take Jack along again (and they probably returned to Earth from the Valiant on the TARDIS too). And we know the TARDIS and the Doctor have a psychic link, so the TARDIS might've been reacting against Jack, but only because of the Doctor's influence....
I actually thought John Simm's performance as the Master was lacking, not because of Simm but because of the script, because RTD seemed to write him as "The Doctor, But Batshit Crazy And EEEEEEEEVIL" whereas the Master never seemed like the Doctor (or more precisely, hyperactive, blibbering bouncy-ball Ten) though I guess he DID pattern himself on Ten when he regenerated. Nevertheless... it seemed like there could've been better ways to do it, and given the lazy scriptwriting of the finale, it seems like the Master's persona was lazy writing too.
Well, Season 2 seems intent on giving us some answers, now that RTD's done with Jack in Who and stopped being a control freak about him (which, unfortunately, doesn't bode well for a Jack/Donna/Ten lovefest). In any case, I'm guessing you're right about Jack taking over Torchwood Three and changing the intent after Canary Wharf, because from what he talked about in Who, he didn't seem to be a part of Torchwood for 100+ years the way most fanficcers have him (I must admit, I rather liked that line of thinking, though). And URRRRRGGGHH, spoilers indicate the flashbacks to Jack's past take place on... THE BOESHANE PENINSULA. Bastards.
"I'd actually like to see more anger from Jack, directed at the Doctor, and they both have to deal with the emotional fallout, then they become really good friends." Think we're going to have to rely on fanfic for that, unfortunately... :(
"How can you watch an episode that never was?" Awww, now I'm thinking about the lost Who episodes that were wiped from the archives and now I'm sad. *thinks, if only the Episode That Doesn't Exist existed and we could go back in time and exchange its hypothetical master tape for some of the wiped Old Who*
Thanks! I'll probably just... rely on Wikipedia or something, haha. And I'll definitely let you know when it's done, since I've settled on a G&O DEATH plot.
I miss the old Doctors now..... le sigh. I never imagined I'd sour on Ten (him being my Doctor, in the sense that I started Who with him) but I think I do like Two better now. So sad. David Tennant will forever be awesome, though.
I vaguely get the feeling I've read your first few paragraphs before, but it might just be my imagination and the fact that we've discussed similar things.
Heh, probably because we discussed similar things.
In any case, I'm glad you were questioning whether it was the TARDIS or the Doctor that made them go to the future at that point, because I took the Doctor's explanation at face value while, of course, the show later proved you right because the Doctor offered to take Jack along again (and they probably returned to Earth from the Valiant on the TARDIS too). And we know the TARDIS and the Doctor have a psychic link, so the TARDIS might've been reacting against Jack, but only because of the Doctor's influence....
Yep, in which case, another reason to dislike 10... grrrrrrrr!!!!!
"Well, Season 2 seems intent on giving us some answers, now that RTD's done with Jack in Who and stopped being a control freak about him (which, unfortunately, doesn't bode well for a Jack/Donna/Ten lovefest). In any case, I'm guessing you're right about Jack taking over Torchwood Three and changing the intent after Canary Wharf, because from what he talked about in Who, he didn't seem to be a part of Torchwood for 100+ years the way most fanficcers have him (I must admit, I rather liked that line of thinking, though). And URRRRRGGGHH, spoilers indicate the flashbacks to Jack's past take place on... THE BOESHANE PENINSULA. Bastards."
:~( So, are you going to write (or know anyone who is) Jack/Donna/Ten? How do you think Donna would react to Jack, and vice-versa?
I gotta admit, I kind of like the idea of Jack having been part of Torchwood for years/decades. Damn them!
"I'd actually like to see more anger from Jack, directed at the Doctor, and they both have to deal with the emotional fallout, then they become really good friends." Think we're going to have to rely on fanfic for that, unfortunately... :(
Probably. *sigh* Come across any like that, and if so, what/where/who?
Yeah, I wish we could exchange The Episode That Doesn't Exist, for old Who that's been wiped. *sob*
Thanks! I'll probably just... rely on Wikipedia or something, haha. And I'll definitely let you know when it's done, since I've settled on a G&O DEATH plot.
Yay!!!!!!!!!!
"I miss the old Doctors now..... le sigh. I never imagined I'd sour on Ten (him being my Doctor, in the sense that I started Who with him) but I think I do like Two better now. So sad. David Tennant will forever be awesome, though."
Yeah, DT is awesome, 10, not so much. *sigh* I didn't think I'd ever sour so much on any Doctor, either, but character-wise, DT's Doctor is quickly approaching 6's unlikeability (in a different way from Colin Baker's Doctor).
I'm in such big trouble. I joined a fic challenge of What did Torchwood do in the No-Longer-Existing Year and now I'm getting the feeling I might have to rewatch LotTL for canon info, but I'm NOT GOING TO. NEVER! NEVAAAR!!!!!!!
Well, Lynda would at least still be alive after crashing through the atmosphere! I just feel really bad for her. And the timeline issue of THAT bugs me too, because by essentially destroying the Fourth Great and Bountiful Empire before it ever existed, HOW MUCH GALACTIC HISTORY WAS CHANGED?!?!? WHAT THE HELL??
And yeah, shooting the paradox machine was kind of like "Why didn't you do that earlier then?" Urgh. I personally think RTD's been kidnapped by aliens and monkeys are currently impersonating him.
Yeah, he so should have teleported with her. For that matter, my friend brought up the good point that they could've grabbed the Doctor and teleported with him as well, since he's still more useful as an old man than without him at all. And yeah, I'm sure being shrunken into Yoda on internatinoal TV creates SUCH faith in him among humans that they'd just go along with Martha's story anyway. Another plot hole: given how old the First Doctor was, how would aging him a hundred years have had that much effect on him?
In regard to 4) Yeah, the Doctor sucks and is so much more emotional over so many of the wrong things in the new series. Has he EVER moped over a companion? And yeah, being the last Time Lord sucks, but still, it's not like he ever liked that many of them to begin with.
Yep, yep, yep, completely agree on Mrs. Saxon and the Jones. They were such a waste of time, and I was hopeful for so much more because Rose's family played such a more prominent role. And Lucy Saxon was cool-ish. We even had a brief conspiracy theory going that she was the Rani for a bit.
YAY! ZERO ZERO ZERO!!!!! Awesome review, basically completely agree. Though reading it makes my blood boil over that episode all over again.
Reply
How did he rebuild it? If Torchwoods 2-4 were always there, and they weren't destroyed, how was he rebuilding it? Was he part of Torchwood before Torchwood One's fall? If not, what was he doing? And if not, where does he have the power or influence to rebuild it?
I thought maybe he changed the purpose/intent of, at least, Torchwood Three. I'd love something in the series, saying that the Doctor, if he shows up, is to be treated like a respected adviser or something along those lines, and that Jack's got that for any Torchwood operations going on (2 in Glasgow, if 1 is rebuilt somewhere/somehow, 4 whenever it shows up again). I'd also like some answers to things like, how long has he known about Torchwood, when/how did he join, was it his choice or he wasn't really given one? etc., etc., etc.
There's a lot of issues I have with this, and I can't help feeling not all of them will be resolved and they were simply ignored so that RTD could put in a happy line to make the audience believe EVERYONE LURRRRRRVES THE DOCTOR. And it's stupid. And yes, I'm bitter, how could you tell?
I think you have good reason to be bitter, but then again, I'm bitter too, so you're preaching to the choir. I'd actually like to see more anger from Jack, directed at the Doctor, and they both have to deal with the emotional fallout, then they become really good friends.
I'm in such big trouble. I joined a fic challenge of What did Torchwood do in the No-Longer-Existing Year and now I'm getting the feeling I might have to rewatch LotTL for canon info, but I'm NOT GOING TO. NEVER! NEVAAAR!!!!!!!
How can you watch an episode that never was?
If you know of anyone (won't be me!) who could watch it for you, come up with questions and ask that person to jot down answers for you. Good luck with the fic and give me a link whenever you have to post it!
And yeah, shooting the paradox machine was kind of like "Why didn't you do that earlier then?" Urgh. I personally think RTD's been kidnapped by aliens and monkeys are currently impersonating him.
Yeah. *sigh*
In regard to 4) Yeah, the Doctor sucks and is so much more emotional over so many of the wrong things in the new series. Has he EVER moped over a companion? And yeah, being the last Time Lord sucks, but still, it's not like he ever liked that many of them to begin with.
Doctor 1-7, no, he hasn't ever moped that much, over losing a companion.
YAY! ZERO ZERO ZERO!!!!! Awesome review, basically completely agree. Though reading it makes my blood boil over that episode all over again.
Thank you. :) Glad you enjoyed it and sorry I made your blood boil over The Episode That Never Was.
Reply
I actually thought John Simm's performance as the Master was lacking, not because of Simm but because of the script, because RTD seemed to write him as "The Doctor, But Batshit Crazy And EEEEEEEEVIL" whereas the Master never seemed like the Doctor (or more precisely, hyperactive, blibbering bouncy-ball Ten) though I guess he DID pattern himself on Ten when he regenerated. Nevertheless... it seemed like there could've been better ways to do it, and given the lazy scriptwriting of the finale, it seems like the Master's persona was lazy writing too.
Well, Season 2 seems intent on giving us some answers, now that RTD's done with Jack in Who and stopped being a control freak about him (which, unfortunately, doesn't bode well for a Jack/Donna/Ten lovefest). In any case, I'm guessing you're right about Jack taking over Torchwood Three and changing the intent after Canary Wharf, because from what he talked about in Who, he didn't seem to be a part of Torchwood for 100+ years the way most fanficcers have him (I must admit, I rather liked that line of thinking, though). And URRRRRGGGHH, spoilers indicate the flashbacks to Jack's past take place on... THE BOESHANE PENINSULA. Bastards.
"I'd actually like to see more anger from Jack, directed at the Doctor, and they both have to deal with the emotional fallout, then they become really good friends."
Think we're going to have to rely on fanfic for that, unfortunately... :(
"How can you watch an episode that never was?"
Awww, now I'm thinking about the lost Who episodes that were wiped from the archives and now I'm sad. *thinks, if only the Episode That Doesn't Exist existed and we could go back in time and exchange its hypothetical master tape for some of the wiped Old Who*
Thanks! I'll probably just... rely on Wikipedia or something, haha. And I'll definitely let you know when it's done, since I've settled on a G&O DEATH plot.
I miss the old Doctors now..... le sigh. I never imagined I'd sour on Ten (him being my Doctor, in the sense that I started Who with him) but I think I do like Two better now. So sad. David Tennant will forever be awesome, though.
Reply
Heh, probably because we discussed similar things.
In any case, I'm glad you were questioning whether it was the TARDIS or the Doctor that made them go to the future at that point, because I took the Doctor's explanation at face value while, of course, the show later proved you right because the Doctor offered to take Jack along again (and they probably returned to Earth from the Valiant on the TARDIS too). And we know the TARDIS and the Doctor have a psychic link, so the TARDIS might've been reacting against Jack, but only because of the Doctor's influence....
Yep, in which case, another reason to dislike 10... grrrrrrrr!!!!!
"Well, Season 2 seems intent on giving us some answers, now that RTD's done with Jack in Who and stopped being a control freak about him (which, unfortunately, doesn't bode well for a Jack/Donna/Ten lovefest). In any case, I'm guessing you're right about Jack taking over Torchwood Three and changing the intent after Canary Wharf, because from what he talked about in Who, he didn't seem to be a part of Torchwood for 100+ years the way most fanficcers have him (I must admit, I rather liked that line of thinking, though). And URRRRRGGGHH, spoilers indicate the flashbacks to Jack's past take place on... THE BOESHANE PENINSULA. Bastards."
:~( So, are you going to write (or know anyone who is) Jack/Donna/Ten? How do you think Donna would react to Jack, and vice-versa?
I gotta admit, I kind of like the idea of Jack having been part of Torchwood for years/decades. Damn them!
"I'd actually like to see more anger from Jack, directed at the Doctor, and they both have to deal with the emotional fallout, then they become really good friends."
Think we're going to have to rely on fanfic for that, unfortunately... :(
Probably. *sigh* Come across any like that, and if so, what/where/who?
Yeah, I wish we could exchange The Episode That Doesn't Exist, for old Who that's been wiped. *sob*
Thanks! I'll probably just... rely on Wikipedia or something, haha. And I'll definitely let you know when it's done, since I've settled on a G&O DEATH plot.
Yay!!!!!!!!!!
"I miss the old Doctors now..... le sigh. I never imagined I'd sour on Ten (him being my Doctor, in the sense that I started Who with him) but I think I do like Two better now. So sad. David Tennant will forever be awesome, though."
Yeah, DT is awesome, 10, not so much. *sigh* I didn't think I'd ever sour so much on any Doctor, either, but character-wise, DT's Doctor is quickly approaching 6's unlikeability (in a different way from Colin Baker's Doctor).
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