*** THIS LITTLE 6-YEAR-OLD ANGEL WAS REPORTED MISSING A FEW DAYS AGO, FOUND DEAD IN A DUMPSTER YESTERDAY, AND TODAY THE 'MAN' WHO ADMITTED HE KILLED HER WAS FOUND WITH THE KNIFE STILL IN HIS POSSESSIONIt happened not far from my home
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Re: Invitation accepted... tniassaintJuly 18 2013, 19:51:32 UTC
Where do I start? Do I start with the moral ethic of politicizing what is clearly not a political issue? Do I start with the inaccuracies regarding media coverage that are spoken specifically to garnish some political point at the expense of a tragic event? Do I discuss how attempting to tie this to unrelated events elsewhere is disgusting? How about the absolutely disgusting introduction of people who have NOTHING AT ALL to do with this and implying they are responsible? Do we go to the relevance to what people need to know in as they go about their daily lives?
This is a terrible, sad and tragic story. Why try to attach unrelated embelishments to this tragic and horrid story - except to attempt to cast blame elsewhere - and into the political. You concentrate almost as much efforts on casting the news as villains as you spend telling of the victim and perp.
That any incident like this is not reported in national news (btw - ABSOLUTELY FALSE in this case - I dont even have cable and I heard about it and have several reports of it sitting on my feeds from CNN, Huffington, NBC, but oddly not a single one in my feed from Faux!)is a testament to the general interest of the population at large. More to that point - if every single horrid incident were to be covered with great detail on a national level the news services would have to run a 24 hour a day 7 day a week broadcast with nothing but the horrors of life. This ends up desensitizing people and paints an unbalanced picture of a horrible world void of any kindness. Statistically, the rates of all violent crime in the US are down with few exceptions; but if one were to splatter all the news with all the horrors they would still not have enough hours in a day to cover more than a couple seconds of only the worst of the matters (which this would qualify as - clearly).
And then to POLITICIZE IT and to bring Holder into this! That is DISGUSTING.
Zimmerman was an issue because it illustrated an ongoing issue of public interest in the news in Florida that is potentially something that could have impact on people all over the county. The ramifications of the Zimmerman trial (one which the jurors have even said illustrated GZ's astoundingly poor judgment and lack of responsibility - go read the interviews) could go far beyond the trial and touch on an interest that is close to the hearts of many.
The initial post suggests that the news doesn't care about the loss of a child. Maybe it is the people that don't. The news will cater to the viewing desire of their public - Faux "news" demonstrates that regularly. I suppose you are equally disturbed when the "right" wing insanosphere neglects to cover every single case of a child getting injured, abducted, killed, mistreated etc. anywhere in the the US? Or how about the horrendous treatment of kids who die every single day in Africa due to malnutrition, preventable disease, contaminated drinking water, violent rebellion activity, and etc. etc.
It really isn't news to most people that a black person might be a victim to a young black male. They are statistically the leading hazard to their population. That a small child was involved is disturbing and offensive - but what about all the black teens that are killed daily? I guess they are old enough that they don't matter? What about all the Hispanic kids? What about all the kids sold into sex trafficking in the US? How about all the kids caught in crossfires between the US and Talliban, blown up in Iraq - why stop at the kids? Why not the good people who do so many good deeds that die horrible deaths every single day? Truth is that this small girl was unknown to anyone outside her immediate surroundings of family and friends. Her sad and tragic loss doesn't impact the lives of the mass of people - and so they don't fixate on it. Would we want to live in a society that fixates on every single tragic loss? This is not being callous, I have allocated plenty of "ink" to the tragedy of her loss, - it is being a realist. You claim to be a realist.
SO this one got your ire up - good. It should have. The story is offensive. Place the blame where it belongs... the killer - not everyone else that did not harm this child.
Re: Invitation accepted... tniassaintJuly 18 2013, 19:53:57 UTC
This written AFTER the last response after the invite Please note that there was a gap of time
Ignored by the media - covered. Ignored by politicians - why would I care. I dislike politicians and feel they are too self absorbed to care. I note that I covered the age of children and loss in inner city in the last post before reading this and for the sake of continuity and to recognize this added sentiment that wasn't really elaborated in the OP - I left it in the post and I applaud it being added here .
Then another reference to Zimmerman. Already covered and hashed out beyond any need to repeat here. Zimmerman won his trial - that doesn't make him innocent. It makes him not guilty in the eyes of the jury - No need to go back over that here except to say that relevance to people across the country is the issue that caused this case to come to the press for as long as it did. We could go on a long time about how screwed up both sides of the Zimmerman case was... but that is pointless. He isn't done in court yet.
...blanket statement where you once again blame liberals for all the evil of the world... hyperbolic tunnel vision regarding a Palin fixation ... you know - NONE of that happened here. Not all liberals do that - and it certainly wasn't a factor in the death of this little girl.
Wild and hysterical statements - I blame that on the culture of the day where we place so much emphasis on the need to get the news fast that we do not worry about the initial accuracy of it. It is not just a liberal media issue - it is a media issue. The internet has spawned a craving for instant news from all places at all times. Once something gets out there is is difficult to get it back. This is why we are STILL dealing with birth certificate issues and still it has nothing to do with the death of a small girl at the hands of a thug.
Yes - your tactics were over the top.
Did I say that Sharpton and Jackson were not over the top? Have I not made comments about them in the negative before (Why yes - MANY TIMES). Grace is vapid - I watch her in small doses - because she is just plain horrible. Corey - I don't know enough about her to comment - she has a right to her opinion. Maher - he's a comedian, and a pretty good one. What do these people have to do with this little girl or your attempt to associate them with this tragedy?
yes - over the top.
It is a horrible story - blame the killer - not everyone you dislike in the world.
Re: Invitation accepted... metaphorsbwithuJuly 18 2013, 21:03:49 UTC
RE: "It is a horrible story - blame the killer - not everyone you dislike in the world."
Can't avoid the cheap shot.
For the record. I am not a liberal. I do not "dislike people" for the usual liberal reasons. I comment on the facts and evens that are unfolding before our eyes.
To say someone describes reality because he or she doesn't like people is so typical of the left. Like people who absolutely HATE Sarah Palin and would dance with joy if harm came to her and/or her family.
I do not like lies, smears, law-breaking, character assassination, inciting hatred, and other tactics of the left. I do not blame people "I don't like" for the murder of a child. That is what LIBERALS do (Gabby Giffords, the Boston Marathon atrocities, the Dark Knight massacre, the Connecticut school killings, ETC., ETC., ETC.
Re: Uh - wow... just wow.tniassaintJuly 18 2013, 21:29:32 UTC
It wasn't cheap at all and certainly not as cheap as the attempt to associate political issues to this story.
I know you feel you only disclose the facts - they are the facts as you see them and as you know them - and as you wan them to be. We cannot really discuss that. We have pretty much covered it.
"To say someone describes reality because he or she doesn't like people is so typical of the left. " We all call them as we see them. You claim the same of me routinely.
Palin? I for one would not wish ill on her. I need the laugh and she is always good for one. I save my thoughts of ill for people who really deserve it - and there are few of them - very few.
Last time I checked, I don't think the overwhelming majority of mankind liked or generally approved of "lies, smears, law-breaking, character assassination, inciting hatred, and other tactics" that you constantly only attribute to the so called left. So long as you deny that those on the so called "right" don't also engage in this behavior and so long as you believe that all those on the "left" do, it will be most difficult to accept these opinions as anything other than what they are - heavily biased opinions of individuals broadcast onto a larger body. No one will take it seriously except those who agree to you. That makes it kinda like preaching to a church full of empty pews and a full choir loft.
Of COURSE any sane person who read this story would be appalled by it. Their political persuasion doesn't really matter.
People have enough misery and hardship in their lives. Most of them do not want to dwell on this stuff - they tune it out. It isn't because they don't care. It is because we would all become murderous if we didn't.
instead folk worry about the distractions - they are more manageable.
Liberals only do that... really?
That, my friend, is purely delusional thinking.
Shall I start sending you Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck and Coulter clips where they have been doing JUST THAT? Maybe some clips of their responses to Gabby Gifford's shooting? Some other shootings? Some fo their kind comments about liberals as they HAD TO obviously been somehow responsible for all the horrors of the world? Faux news does this REGULARLY.
Truth is that the various members of the insanosphere cannot resist.
Don't get me wrong - yes I know there are idiots on the left that do this. I have rolled my eyes at them as well. I tune them out... but I also don't claim that ALL conservatives are the evil, manipulative thugs that so many of their elites are. I don't blame all conservatives for the mindless rantings of The great talking heads of their insaneosphere.
I hear those on the left criticize the left CONSTANTLY. I do it as well. Here you seem to indict anyone that is not a conservative.
The person that killed this is a thug. He might be liberal, he might be conservative - but I can tell you what he isn't... sane, moral, or of any significant value to anyone.
Maybe you don't feel you do this - but you have just made a patently false statement again. You cannot possibly expect any sane person to believe or accept that sort of statement.
You were the one that started dropping these names in some odd association with this story - not me.
Re: I feel I should pass you a drink -tniassaintJuly 19 2013, 00:48:52 UTC
Re: I feel I should pass you a drink - since you are not here I will just have it myself. I often have that feeling when talking with my somewhat old (not an age dig friend), but very dear friend metaphorsbwithu who sadly cannot see the facial expressions that go along with the responses.
Would you have preferred I used the term "Partisan politics"?
No - I do not see someone's murder of a small girl to be a political issue in the slightest. Even in the event that the deed were politically motivated, the person who would kill a child in this manner is not acting on political cause. It is a mental and moral issue. Not political.
With this odd bit of logic I could say the weather forecast is political. I could say the marriage system is political, my choice of pets - pretty much anything.
It's kind of a non-response.
This was not a political issue. This was / is a sick SOB that took his issues out on an innocent girl. It is not political.
Re: I feel I should pass you a drink -marycatelliJuly 19 2013, 01:13:32 UTC
No, I would have prefered you to avoid regurgiating your false point.
That an issue is mental and moral does not mean it is not political. That something else entirely, namely the weather forecast, is not political does not mean it is not political. Protecting its citizens against such crimes is the entire reason why government exists. Therefore, his ability to do so is a political matter.
Re: suit yourself. Ramble away.tniassaintJuly 19 2013, 01:30:30 UTC
The issue that all things are or might be political is completely irrelevant. You have not laid out your case that it is. More to the point - I disagree that the protection of citizens is THE primary purpose of government (read the Constitution, the works of Hobbes, Jerad Diamond or Thomas Paine for more on that). It is A function, but not THE function.
More to that point, not all activities conducted by individuals is political in nature but yet might have some policy that somehow governs it. That doesn't make the activity political.
Even without organized governments, societies had and have rules regarding murder - amongst other things.
Attaching clearly partisan political disagreement to an incident that is clearly not a partisan political matter is absurd. You have still not created any discussion to indicate that this point has any inking of relevance.
The adjective "Partisan" is obvious enough that I did not feel the need to use it.
I'm afraid I am not the one regurgitating anything. Maybe you should have that drink. It might clear your head a bit.
Re: suit yourself. Ramble away.marycatelliJuly 19 2013, 01:51:25 UTC
Try reading the Declaration of Independence, yourself. The Constitution is a document to implement government, not a theoretical discussion of why we implement it. Which is, in fact, exactly to protect the citizens.
As for "Hobbes, Jerad Diamond or Thomas Paine" -- argumentum ad auctoritatem. Not to mention that your peculiar selection of authorities creates doubts on its own.
This is a terrible, sad and tragic story. Why try to attach unrelated embelishments to this tragic and horrid story - except to attempt to cast blame elsewhere - and into the political. You concentrate almost as much efforts on casting the news as villains as you spend telling of the victim and perp.
That any incident like this is not reported in national news (btw - ABSOLUTELY FALSE in this case - I dont even have cable and I heard about it and have several reports of it sitting on my feeds from CNN, Huffington, NBC, but oddly not a single one in my feed from Faux!)is a testament to the general interest of the population at large. More to that point - if every single horrid incident were to be covered with great detail on a national level the news services would have to run a 24 hour a day 7 day a week broadcast with nothing but the horrors of life. This ends up desensitizing people and paints an unbalanced picture of a horrible world void of any kindness. Statistically, the rates of all violent crime in the US are down with few exceptions; but if one were to splatter all the news with all the horrors they would still not have enough hours in a day to cover more than a couple seconds of only the worst of the matters (which this would qualify as - clearly).
And then to POLITICIZE IT and to bring Holder into this! That is DISGUSTING.
Zimmerman was an issue because it illustrated an ongoing issue of public interest in the news in Florida that is potentially something that could have impact on people all over the county. The ramifications of the Zimmerman trial (one which the jurors have even said illustrated GZ's astoundingly poor judgment and lack of responsibility - go read the interviews) could go far beyond the trial and touch on an interest that is close to the hearts of many.
The initial post suggests that the news doesn't care about the loss of a child. Maybe it is the people that don't. The news will cater to the viewing desire of their public - Faux "news" demonstrates that regularly. I suppose you are equally disturbed when the "right" wing insanosphere neglects to cover every single case of a child getting injured, abducted, killed, mistreated etc. anywhere in the the US? Or how about the horrendous treatment of kids who die every single day in Africa due to malnutrition, preventable disease, contaminated drinking water, violent rebellion activity, and etc. etc.
It really isn't news to most people that a black person might be a victim to a young black male. They are statistically the leading hazard to their population. That a small child was involved is disturbing and offensive - but what about all the black teens that are killed daily? I guess they are old enough that they don't matter? What about all the Hispanic kids? What about all the kids sold into sex trafficking in the US? How about all the kids caught in crossfires between the US and Talliban, blown up in Iraq - why stop at the kids? Why not the good people who do so many good deeds that die horrible deaths every single day? Truth is that this small girl was unknown to anyone outside her immediate surroundings of family and friends. Her sad and tragic loss doesn't impact the lives of the mass of people - and so they don't fixate on it. Would we want to live in a society that fixates on every single tragic loss? This is not being callous, I have allocated plenty of "ink" to the tragedy of her loss, - it is being a realist. You claim to be a realist.
SO this one got your ire up - good. It should have. The story is offensive. Place the blame where it belongs... the killer - not everyone else that did not harm this child.
Reply
Please note that there was a gap of time
Ignored by the media - covered. Ignored by politicians - why would I care. I dislike politicians and feel they are too self absorbed to care. I note that I covered the age of children and loss in inner city in the last post before reading this and for the sake of continuity and to recognize this added sentiment that wasn't really elaborated in the OP - I left it in the post and I applaud it being added here .
Then another reference to Zimmerman. Already covered and hashed out beyond any need to repeat here. Zimmerman won his trial - that doesn't make him innocent. It makes him not guilty in the eyes of the jury - No need to go back over that here except to say that relevance to people across the country is the issue that caused this case to come to the press for as long as it did. We could go on a long time about how screwed up both sides of the Zimmerman case was... but that is pointless. He isn't done in court yet.
...blanket statement where you once again blame liberals for all the evil of the world... hyperbolic tunnel vision regarding a Palin fixation ... you know - NONE of that happened here. Not all liberals do that - and it certainly wasn't a factor in the death of this little girl.
Wild and hysterical statements - I blame that on the culture of the day where we place so much emphasis on the need to get the news fast that we do not worry about the initial accuracy of it. It is not just a liberal media issue - it is a media issue. The internet has spawned a craving for instant news from all places at all times. Once something gets out there is is difficult to get it back. This is why we are STILL dealing with birth certificate issues and still it has nothing to do with the death of a small girl at the hands of a thug.
Yes - your tactics were over the top.
Did I say that Sharpton and Jackson were not over the top? Have I not made comments about them in the negative before (Why yes - MANY TIMES). Grace is vapid - I watch her in small doses - because she is just plain horrible. Corey - I don't know enough about her to comment - she has a right to her opinion. Maher - he's a comedian, and a pretty good one. What do these people have to do with this little girl or your attempt to associate them with this tragedy?
yes - over the top.
It is a horrible story - blame the killer - not everyone you dislike in the world.
Reply
Can't avoid the cheap shot.
For the record. I am not a liberal. I do not "dislike people" for the usual liberal reasons. I comment on the facts and evens that are unfolding before our eyes.
To say someone describes reality because he or she doesn't like people is so typical of the left. Like people who absolutely HATE Sarah Palin and would dance with joy if harm came to her and/or her family.
I do not like lies, smears, law-breaking, character assassination, inciting hatred, and other tactics of the left. I do not blame people "I don't like" for the murder of a child. That is what LIBERALS do (Gabby Giffords, the Boston Marathon atrocities, the Dark Knight massacre, the Connecticut school killings, ETC., ETC., ETC.
Reply
and certainly not as cheap as the attempt to associate political issues to this story.
I know you feel you only disclose the facts - they are the facts as you see them and as you know them - and as you wan them to be. We cannot really discuss that. We have pretty much covered it.
"To say someone describes reality because he or she doesn't like people is so typical of the left. " We all call them as we see them. You claim the same of me routinely.
Palin? I for one would not wish ill on her. I need the laugh and she is always good for one. I save my thoughts of ill for people who really deserve it - and there are few of them - very few.
Last time I checked, I don't think the overwhelming majority of mankind liked or generally approved of "lies, smears, law-breaking, character assassination, inciting hatred, and other tactics" that you constantly only attribute to the so called left. So long as you deny that those on the so called "right" don't also engage in this behavior and so long as you believe that all those on the "left" do, it will be most difficult to accept these opinions as anything other than what they are - heavily biased opinions of individuals broadcast onto a larger body. No one will take it seriously except those who agree to you. That makes it kinda like preaching to a church full of empty pews and a full choir loft.
Of COURSE any sane person who read this story would be appalled by it. Their political persuasion doesn't really matter.
People have enough misery and hardship in their lives. Most of them do not want to dwell on this stuff - they tune it out. It isn't because they don't care. It is because we would all become murderous if we didn't.
instead folk worry about the distractions - they are more manageable.
Liberals only do that... really?
That, my friend, is purely delusional thinking.
Shall I start sending you Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck and Coulter clips where they have been doing JUST THAT? Maybe some clips of their responses to Gabby Gifford's shooting? Some other shootings? Some fo their kind comments about liberals as they HAD TO obviously been somehow responsible for all the horrors of the world? Faux news does this REGULARLY.
Truth is that the various members of the insanosphere cannot resist.
Don't get me wrong - yes I know there are idiots on the left that do this. I have rolled my eyes at them as well. I tune them out... but I also don't claim that ALL conservatives are the evil, manipulative thugs that so many of their elites are. I don't blame all conservatives for the mindless rantings of The great talking heads of their insaneosphere.
I hear those on the left criticize the left CONSTANTLY. I do it as well. Here you seem to indict anyone that is not a conservative.
The person that killed this is a thug. He might be liberal, he might be conservative - but I can tell you what he isn't... sane, moral, or of any significant value to anyone.
Maybe you don't feel you do this - but you have just made a patently false statement again. You cannot possibly expect any sane person to believe or accept that sort of statement.
You were the one that started dropping these names in some odd association with this story - not me.
Reply
Law and order is the fundamental purpose of government. Crime is therefore inherently political because it is a failure of the government.
Reply
I often have that feeling when talking with my somewhat old (not an age dig friend), but very dear friend metaphorsbwithu who sadly cannot see the facial expressions that go along with the responses.
Would you have preferred I used the term "Partisan politics"?
No - I do not see someone's murder of a small girl to be a political issue in the slightest. Even in the event that the deed were politically motivated, the person who would kill a child in this manner is not acting on political cause. It is a mental and moral issue. Not political.
With this odd bit of logic I could say the weather forecast is political. I could say the marriage system is political, my choice of pets - pretty much anything.
It's kind of a non-response.
This was not a political issue. This was / is a sick SOB that took his issues out on an innocent girl. It is not political.
Reply
That an issue is mental and moral does not mean it is not political. That something else entirely, namely the weather forecast, is not political does not mean it is not political. Protecting its citizens against such crimes is the entire reason why government exists. Therefore, his ability to do so is a political matter.
Reply
More to that point, not all activities conducted by individuals is political in nature but yet might have some policy that somehow governs it. That doesn't make the activity political.
Even without organized governments, societies had and have rules regarding murder - amongst other things.
Attaching clearly partisan political disagreement to an incident that is clearly not a partisan political matter is absurd. You have still not created any discussion to indicate that this point has any inking of relevance.
The adjective "Partisan" is obvious enough that I did not feel the need to use it.
I'm afraid I am not the one regurgitating anything. Maybe you should have that drink. It might clear your head a bit.
Reply
As for "Hobbes, Jerad Diamond or Thomas Paine" -- argumentum ad auctoritatem. Not to mention that your peculiar selection of authorities creates doubts on its own.
Reply
Reply
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