McGonagall and Umbridge

[merrymelody]

McGonagall - described by both the narrative and many fans (adella711 and I both recently took polls reflecting this, so even 'subversive' readers such as slashers seem to agree) as the fairest teacher at Hogwarts.
Umbridge - loathed by text and audience alike.
But are they so different?

Comments

[sistermagpie]

(con't)

McGonnogal is no more able than anyone else to be honest about Neville's losing the password for instance--yeah, blame the student for being stupid but lets not hear a word about the teacher who was actively protecting Sirius Black or demand to know how Black got close enough to steal Neville's password to begin with. Not to mention, she gets teary-eyed thinking about those loveable sadistic bullies James and Sirius--she, like everyone else in this universe--doesn't seem impressed by kindness at all. It's just all about power. Yes, they were bullies, but they got away with it to the point where it was just fun for them and that makes them cool. It's the incompetents that are the trouble--I'm sure Neville will become a favorite once his ass-kicking gets noticed. School's being staffed by incompetants? So what? They're our incompetents! Harry and George were stupid for having attacked Draco in public and so gotten themselves kicked off the team; Draco's forfeited all right to consideration having made them do it. He

[merrymelody]

Ishtar made an interesting post about intelligence not being wildly popular in the HPverse (actually, iirc, you commented on it), or at least, not being valued as highly as 'feelings' - Hagrid's feelings in PoA, for example, are presented as more important than say, Lucius Malfoy's or Draco's (because they have none, being Grr, Evil!111) or indeed, the law.
Likewise, Trelawney's feelings in OotP are more important to Dumbledore, the God figure; than the student's right to an education.
As you said - everyone behaved like brats in Quidditch, but the text implicitly states who the sore losers are: whoever opposes Gryffindor.
McGonagall and Alicia both reprimand the boys, but of course, who's going to listen to girls? Plus, they're not exactly opposing violence, more like:
"Try and be more sneaky, next time. The train is a great place to assault people, as you know!"

(I loathe the whole 'McGonagall would have punished Fred and George! They would have got detention!' *slow handclaps

[tinderblast]

If there's one thing guaranteed to get a rise out of a guy, it's to insult his mother. Or so popular culture has taught me.

[merrymelody]

Or call him 'chicken', according to Back to the Future (and don't even get me started on that.)

[tinderblast]

*shifts eyes left then right*

*sidles up to you*

*'gets you started'*

[merrymelody]

Seriously, don't! I loathe the moral of those films so much! (Combined with my HP hate, I could power nations...)

[sistermagpie]

I have to say, I was amazed at Harry's jumping on Draco for that comment--in my mind he just had to be jumping on him for the combination of insulting Lily and getting at Harry's sensitive secret of sniffing around the Weasleys because he wishes he had a home. And I could only do that after the ridiculousness of Draco's comments had been forgotten. Yo momma smells? Without even some twist that makes that funny? Help

[merrymelody]

Well, again it's back to the corner JKR paints herself into every book

[ishtar79]

But what JKR doesn't seem to realise is that it's not a bragworthy feat; writing flat, one-dimensional characters, whether they're heroes or villains. It's not an indictment of all evildoers in the world, it's not going to teach all those mean kids in high school a lesson, it's not indicative of moral strength. It's boring.

At the danger of repeating myself, big fat WORD to all you've said.

As for the ineffectualness of the DE...well, that's a whole other rant.

[merrymelody]

Seriously, with most authors if someone said 'Half your characters are underdeveloped and flat' they'd defend themselves wildly.
I kind of picture JKR smirking smugly and saying 'Thank you.'

Someone has an icon of 'Give me the Prophecy' which gradually fills the screen, then
Harry: No
Lucius: Damn, I really thought that would work!

[go_back_chief]

Actually, I can see her trying to defend herself. Like this:
"They're not underdeveloped and flat. They're Evil." ;-)

[merrymelody]

Evil people don't have personalities!

[ishtar79]

School's being staffed by incompetants? So what? They're our incompetents!

*snort*

I think you might have just discovered the REAL Hogwarts motto. Because that bit about not tickling a sleeping dragon? Doesn't make sense. And it's advice Hagrid would follow either.

But on a more serious note, I'd almost forgotten how fondly McGonagall remembered James and Sirius. Whatever might be said about her, she's not stupid or unobservant-there's NO WAY IN HELL she was unaware the true nature of her precious Gryffs. Damn, this whole discussion is making me dislike her.

[merrymelody]

They only ever mistreated Snape, and we know McG and he don't get along!
It's okay to mistreat people if you don't like them!
Haven't you read any Harry Potter books at all?!

[ishtar79]

Haven't you read any Harry Potter books at all?!

I was going to, but then I read the 'Manual of the deluded, sex-mad Snapefan, who doesn't realize what a Greasy Git he really is' and got distracted.

[merrymelody]

JKR says 'Who'd want Snape in love with them?'
Clearly difficult people are not worthy of love and you must be Wrong. Possibly Evil, and 'worryingly, Slytherin may be your spiritual home.'
*sits back with sanctimonious smile*