I sort of ignore "culture" in my stories, which is maybe wrong of me, but I guess I concentrate more on just who they are underneath the labels. It's probably totally idealistic and unrealistic of me, but oh well. I do see homophobia in slash characters of course, because it's usually a first time for many of them, and they do not normally (or have ever) identified themselves as "gay." That's why I liked your Roadhouse stories so much. It was great when Sonny kept thinnking "is Vinnie a fag?" and you knew it was Sonny projecting his own insecurities about homosexuality because, really, Sonny was the one all over Vinnie every night and Vinnie, in his deep depression, often just tolerated it (although of course he liked it, too, maybe a little more denial there, too?) It makes for some great drama, and the characters really are forced to take a deeper, harder look at themselves to finally, in the end, just accept themselves for better or worse. That is good writing! I have Sonny finding it easy to love Vinnie but difficult to admit it to others in some of my stories. But that's because of the current climate we live in. It's still, to this day, threatening and scary for a man to be gay or bi in this country, although things are maybe a tad better than they were in the 80s. And the program in a heterosexual man's brain would be possibly constantly telling him "this is wrong" and he has to hear that, even from himself, every day even if he is smack in love with another guy.
I missed the part about mulignanes in the Rabid Rabbit ep. I thought Sonny treated them just like anyone else, as if he didn't even notice their color. So I missed that small thing. But he was pissed at these guys. He might call white guys who pissed him off mulignanes, too,...maybe?
It is so true that Joey handled everything wrong re: Sonny. Vinnie tried to give Joey advice and Joey ignored it. Sonny was in a corner. I love that ep because it shows Sonny as a vulnerable guy who cares, but stupid people put him in the position of having to teach them a lesson. Maybe it's like saying flies cause garbage to say other people force Sonny to make not nice decisions, but I do see it in that ep. Sonny also came across in the series as wanting to do right by others who do right by him. He's fair in that way. And you cannot tell me that people who deal with Sonny don't know any better. They know who and what he is. They are just plain stupid if they think they can make a contract with him and then break it. Hello! It's a Steelgrave! You don't do that!
I could sit and defend Sonny's actions all day long. And list dozens of his likeable, good traits. Does that make me insane? Does that make me want to be like him? Hell no. I just love, as a writer and viewer, complex characters. Huzzah to writers who can pull off complex characters and make them sympathetic, make us feel for them.
Like you, I like horror, too. But it's not the same to root for hilarious Freddy Krueger as it is to love Sonny Steelgrave. Freddy equals fun/funny. Sonny is, well, I just love the heck outta him.
Oh, and about Vinnie falling for Sonny in your comment to rheasilvia. I couldn't agree more. It feels, at first, like Frank is not on his side. And his family has abandoned him. You send Vinnie in with a guy who is a lot like him feeling all bereft like that and the only guy who shows any amount of caring of him, even if he's the guy Vinnie is supposed to take down, is going to become a real friend. That's fantastic writing, because their friendship was real. More real than anything else for the two of them at a certain point. Whether or not a viewer decides to view it as romantic is up to the viewer, because it's all there if you want to see it that way...the physical touching, the affection, the expensive gifts, the looks, the up/down looks, eye contact, voices going softer when they talk to each other, Sonny being in Vinnie's room early in the mornings sometimes, etc. Even pro reviewers called their relationship homoerotic.
Thank you! Having been brought up Catholic, their culture is one of the thing that resonates with me, so I enjoy writing it. It's not something I've ever focused on in any of the other fandoms I wrote it. I do love the forbidden love aspect being heightened, though. *g*
I think you're right about Sonny treating anyone who pissed him off pretty much the same. But mulignanes is a racial epitet; it means eggplant. I think if Vinnie told him to stop using the word, he'd do it.
In some ways, Sonny was all wrong for the business he was in. He was way too trusting--not just of Vinnie, but of anyone he cared about. The writers wrote a complex character, and Ray was able to embody that. Of course we're going to be fascinated!
I was brought up Unitarian. Catholicism is so alien to me! So I think it is mostly wise to ignore it in my stories except peripherally, or write the characters as "fallen" as far as faith so I don't have to deal with it, but still having the cultural effects.
About the racial epithet. My bad! I didn't know. Eggplant? I find it a rather non-threatening plant myself.
I absolutely love that the character of Sonny is so easily trusting...and generous and affectionate. The writers also did it in a way that did not make him look stupid or too naive...just sweet??? How'd that happen?
I do my best to avoid writing aspects of characters that I'm not familiar enough with, and I think it's a good policy.
I have no idea why eggplant is an insult. I'd mostly be confused if someone called me that. Or any other vegetable. "Radish!" Uh, what? *g*
I'm biased, but I think Ray brought a lot to Sonny's character. He always did know how to bring a warmth to a character who wasn't supposed to be particularly warm or sympathetic.
I have, since the first time I watched WG in the late 80s, always given mucho kudos to the actors...all of them. You get a genius combination of good writing and good acting and good directing with that extra spark all too rarely...when it's there it should be bottled and saved. I still believe they made a big mistake killing off Sonny. Who cares if he took over the show and it went in a different direction? That's what good writing is about...recognizing what you have and adjusting the plan to make room for it. You don't get that kind of spark every day, especially in Stephen J. Cannell cheese. It's so rare. Arrogance made them think they could repeat it with the rest of the arcs? Sure Vinnie and Frank are GREAT and they tried to give Vinnie Roger as a new boyfriend but it just never worked for me. I can't even watch the rest of the arcs.
I missed the part about mulignanes in the Rabid Rabbit ep. I thought Sonny treated them just like anyone else, as if he didn't even notice their color. So I missed that small thing. But he was pissed at these guys. He might call white guys who pissed him off mulignanes, too,...maybe?
It is so true that Joey handled everything wrong re: Sonny. Vinnie tried to give Joey advice and Joey ignored it. Sonny was in a corner. I love that ep because it shows Sonny as a vulnerable guy who cares, but stupid people put him in the position of having to teach them a lesson. Maybe it's like saying flies cause garbage to say other people force Sonny to make not nice decisions, but I do see it in that ep. Sonny also came across in the series as wanting to do right by others who do right by him. He's fair in that way. And you cannot tell me that people who deal with Sonny don't know any better. They know who and what he is. They are just plain stupid if they think they can make a contract with him and then break it. Hello! It's a Steelgrave! You don't do that!
I could sit and defend Sonny's actions all day long. And list dozens of his likeable, good traits. Does that make me insane? Does that make me want to be like him? Hell no. I just love, as a writer and viewer, complex characters. Huzzah to writers who can pull off complex characters and make them sympathetic, make us feel for them.
Like you, I like horror, too. But it's not the same to root for hilarious Freddy Krueger as it is to love Sonny Steelgrave. Freddy equals fun/funny. Sonny is, well, I just love the heck outta him.
Oh, and about Vinnie falling for Sonny in your comment to rheasilvia. I couldn't agree more. It feels, at first, like Frank is not on his side. And his family has abandoned him. You send Vinnie in with a guy who is a lot like him feeling all bereft like that and the only guy who shows any amount of caring of him, even if he's the guy Vinnie is supposed to take down, is going to become a real friend. That's fantastic writing, because their friendship was real. More real than anything else for the two of them at a certain point. Whether or not a viewer decides to view it as romantic is up to the viewer, because it's all there if you want to see it that way...the physical touching, the affection, the expensive gifts, the looks, the up/down looks, eye contact, voices going softer when they talk to each other, Sonny being in Vinnie's room early in the mornings sometimes, etc. Even pro reviewers called their relationship homoerotic.
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I think you're right about Sonny treating anyone who pissed him off pretty much the same. But mulignanes is a racial epitet; it means eggplant. I think if Vinnie told him to stop using the word, he'd do it.
In some ways, Sonny was all wrong for the business he was in. He was way too trusting--not just of Vinnie, but of anyone he cared about. The writers wrote a complex character, and Ray was able to embody that. Of course we're going to be fascinated!
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About the racial epithet. My bad! I didn't know. Eggplant? I find it a rather non-threatening plant myself.
I absolutely love that the character of Sonny is so easily trusting...and generous and affectionate. The writers also did it in a way that did not make him look stupid or too naive...just sweet??? How'd that happen?
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I have no idea why eggplant is an insult. I'd mostly be confused if someone called me that. Or any other vegetable. "Radish!" Uh, what? *g*
I'm biased, but I think Ray brought a lot to Sonny's character. He always did know how to bring a warmth to a character who wasn't supposed to be particularly warm or sympathetic.
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