I think what exists politically and what is believed personally are two different things. Certainly, there's a gradation of depths of belief, too, to deal with. The US may be, in some areas, less liberal than in others but when the distinctions are made, there is a balance. Also, you and I may have very different opinions of what constitutes "liberal". Some of the least liberal people (every bit as doctrinaire and extreme as our far-right wackos) I've encountered have been Marxists. Just yesterday, I was reading an article written by an avowedly anti-US journalist who is a big EU fan. If he had said about any other culture, the things he wrote about the US (and I mean the people not the government), people would be calling for his head. He was actually talking about "making the good Americans come to Europe" and clearing out our continent. Not a liberal soul, that. lol
Now, certainly in many instances the US is to the right of Europe. In others, however, in matters like free speech and freedom of the press, our beliefs (as opposed to current practice) are to the left. Free speech is a maxim here. If the state tried to seize newspapers and TV networks, the public would go crazy. That is why it is done so surreptitiously via the Murdoch method. We also have less restrictive laws on the books when it comes to television shows, movies and other media, for another example. We don't have "hate speech" laws. That would be considered unthinkable here.
It's the majority opinion that the state should care for all those who can't do that for themselves. That may not be obvious because of the cognitive dissonance in many parts of the country -- causing people to say no when asked if they believe in socialized medicine versus their favoring a national health care system which the majority here definitely supports. The moment the GOP goes anywhere near Social Security, the public is enraged. Bush didn't even attempt to go there even while he was destroying our Constitution. Right now, Obama is paving the way toward our own NHS. I actually think we'll do it this time.
One of the main reasons Bush is so profoundly hated as he is, is his inaction during and after Katrina. Presidents are NOT booed in public here as a rule. Not even if they are disliked. President Clinton was cheered during the impeachment nonsense. For Bush to be publicly booed or "dissed" as the kids say, is a truly amazing thing.
Americans out of pocket paid millions toward Katrina relief. Just in my group of friends, we gave $10,000 in cash, money and supplies. My husband and I contributed $1000 in money and baby clothes/formula and the like.
The GOP knows how to coach "right" answers out of the public. They do it all the time. But the reality of what is believed versus what is said to be believed, well, that's the entire problem.
We absolutely believe in caring for the children of single mothers -- even in the deepest south. If you're accepting the viewpoints of our loudest media voices instead of the totality of beliefs, well, that's the problem of stereotype versus reality.
You're right, of course, about our aversion to state ownership but I don't think of that as a classically liberal position. Marxist? Absolutely. However some of the most severe, unbending and reactionary people I've ever known (almost as bad as right wing US Republicans) are hard line Marxists.
If we consider the US to be more like the EU than a single country, then one of the most powerful men in the "country" of Virginia is Bernie Sanders, a proud and out socialist. He won his office with 65% of the vote.
I'm afraid on this matter, we'll have to agree to disagree. But since we agree on most other things, I think that's ok. lol BTW, forgive my typo-ridden run-on sentences, I'm writing this before heading out the door and won't be able to edit it.
I think we agree more than you think and most of our apparent differences are down to my inability to explain. I never said what I mean by liberal, for example.
Perhaps I can explain the relative centering of the EU V USA by this. In the EU, support for Obama for President prior to the election was far greater than 80% and nobody I spoke to could understand why McCain wasn't laughed out of the contest for the things he said. I work in the defence industry and most of the people I talk to are right of Atilla the Hun in UK terms
The reason for McCain has a lot to do with differences in the "nap" of our cultural rug, as it were. There is a lot of paranoia. In a big country, we're pitted against each other (the modern neocons have taken advantage of this). There's a lot of xenophobia and fear of "the outside", bred in us because of our history. And we have just an awful lot of idiots. lol
The only group McCain won was the white male and he didn't do well with them. White men here are very pro-military. McCain is a genuine war hero. When you add in the racist fringe, there's your majority.
Obama had an overwhelming victory. I know it was not covered much in European press but Obama genuinely smashed McCain ... even more than Reagan did Carter.
Anyway, the wackojob from the press spawned a new post. lol
Now, certainly in many instances the US is to the right of Europe. In others, however, in matters like free speech and freedom of the press, our beliefs (as opposed to current practice) are to the left. Free speech is a maxim here. If the state tried to seize newspapers and TV networks, the public would go crazy. That is why it is done so surreptitiously via the Murdoch method. We also have less restrictive laws on the books when it comes to television shows, movies and other media, for another example. We don't have "hate speech" laws. That would be considered unthinkable here.
It's the majority opinion that the state should care for all those who can't do that for themselves. That may not be obvious because of the cognitive dissonance in many parts of the country -- causing people to say no when asked if they believe in socialized medicine versus their favoring a national health care system which the majority here definitely supports. The moment the GOP goes anywhere near Social Security, the public is enraged. Bush didn't even attempt to go there even while he was destroying our Constitution. Right now, Obama is paving the way toward our own NHS. I actually think we'll do it this time.
One of the main reasons Bush is so profoundly hated as he is, is his inaction during and after Katrina. Presidents are NOT booed in public here as a rule. Not even if they are disliked. President Clinton was cheered during the impeachment nonsense. For Bush to be publicly booed or "dissed" as the kids say, is a truly amazing thing.
Americans out of pocket paid millions toward Katrina relief. Just in my group of friends, we gave $10,000 in cash, money and supplies. My husband and I contributed $1000 in money and baby clothes/formula and the like.
The GOP knows how to coach "right" answers out of the public. They do it all the time. But the reality of what is believed versus what is said to be believed, well, that's the entire problem.
We absolutely believe in caring for the children of single mothers -- even in the deepest south. If you're accepting the viewpoints of our loudest media voices instead of the totality of beliefs, well, that's the problem of stereotype versus reality.
You're right, of course, about our aversion to state ownership but I don't think of that as a classically liberal position. Marxist? Absolutely. However some of the most severe, unbending and reactionary people I've ever known (almost as bad as right wing US Republicans) are hard line Marxists.
If we consider the US to be more like the EU than a single country, then one of the most powerful men in the "country" of Virginia is Bernie Sanders, a proud and out socialist. He won his office with 65% of the vote.
I'm afraid on this matter, we'll have to agree to disagree. But since we agree on most other things, I think that's ok. lol BTW, forgive my typo-ridden run-on sentences, I'm writing this before heading out the door and won't be able to edit it.
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Perhaps I can explain the relative centering of the EU V USA by this. In the EU, support for Obama for President prior to the election was far greater than 80% and nobody I spoke to could understand why McCain wasn't laughed out of the contest for the things he said. I work in the defence industry and most of the people I talk to are right of Atilla the Hun in UK terms
Reply
The reason for McCain has a lot to do with differences in the "nap" of our cultural rug, as it were. There is a lot of paranoia. In a big country, we're pitted against each other (the modern neocons have taken advantage of this). There's a lot of xenophobia and fear of "the outside", bred in us because of our history. And we have just an awful lot of idiots. lol
The only group McCain won was the white male and he didn't do well with them. White men here are very pro-military. McCain is a genuine war hero. When you add in the racist fringe, there's your majority.
Obama had an overwhelming victory. I know it was not covered much in European press but Obama genuinely smashed McCain ... even more than Reagan did Carter.
Anyway, the wackojob from the press spawned a new post. lol
Reply
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