Frostflower and Thorn/Frostflower and Windbourne by Phyllis Ann Karr

[meganbmoore]

In a world where all warriors are women and sorcerers and sorceresses lose their powers if they have sex 9a trope that does later get turned on its head quite well), the warrior Thorn finds herself pregnant and desperate to get rid of "the grub" before it interferes with her work.  Meanwhile, the sorceress Frostflower desperately craves a child,

Comments

[magicnoire]

I have a lot of the early Sword & Sorceress anthologies edited by Marion Zimmer Bradley and if I recall correctly, there were short stories about Frostflower and Thorn included in them. I'm not sure at one point in the timeline they took place (I don't seem to recall a child) or if those short stories later gave rise to the novel or if those short stories were later incorporated into the novels (as Mercedes Lackey did with her Tarma & Kethry characters into her Valdemar books and Jennifer Roberson did with Keeley into her Shapechanger books). I read those anthologies a lot when I was younger so it might be interesting to look at them again.

(I do think the S&S anthologies might be past their prime at this point. Back when they first came out -- early 80s -- they were pretty revolutionary. But to keep the conversation alive, the stories of swordswomen & sorceresses would need to keep evolving past the rape & revenge tropes and oversexualized structural systems that characterized the fantasy stories of yesteryear. I'm not sure we're seeing that in that particular anthology series anymore, especially if the purpose of the line is to be revolutionary and innovative when it comes to female characters in fantasy fiction.)

[meganbmoore]

I think fantasy is on the verge of being like movies, where you seemed to have a period of people actively making the roles bigger and more important, but it drifted into "you have women in the movie, isn't that enough?" I've noticed that the surge of women doing things independently and being the focus is starting to die off a bit (see: how much UF is all about which guy she'll be with).

[magicnoire]

I kind of think the UF genre is stagnating and in a rut at the moment. Much like stupid farmboy finds the plot coupons who save the world, we have kick-ass* chick kicks butt and has sex.

* Kick-ass here often being the adjective used even when the character in question is not remotely close.

[meganbmoore]

I can think of a few suppsedly demure Damsels in Distress who could mop the floor with a lot of these "I'm such a big tough fighter chick" characters.

(And what's wrong with farmgirls, huh fantasy? Give them a chance to get the magic sword and learn they're the secret granddaughter of the king who was hidden away from the evil dragon who was prophesied to kill it! Or whatever!)

[usagi_alchemist]

I'm actually in the process of writing a farmgirl like that. :D

[magicnoire]

(Sorry! Farmgirls can only become heroes if their farm is burned to the ground, their family killed, and they get raped!)

[meganbmoore]

BAH!

[chomiji]

Oh? What about Tiffany Aching?

[smillaraaq]

I haven't read it yet myself, but isn't farmgirl-comes-of-age-and-discovers-huge-magical-destiny the whole schtick behind Elisabeth Moon's The Deed of Paksenarion?

[meganbmoore]

Hmm,that does sound pretty good. The question is: does she have to get raped to have her adventures?

[smillaraaq]

Well, I did give it a shot several years ago after loving Moon's Heris Serrano books (I know I've pimped those out here before, military SF with a female lead and strong focus on female characters, including many that are middle-aged or elderly...how often do you see that?), but bounced off because I wasn't in the mood for modern fantasy when I picked it out of the library, and had to take it back before I got around to feeling like finishing it. I don't remember there being any rape in what little of it I did get through, though -- she runs away from home because she's uninterested in the arranged marriage her father's trying to spring on her, and joins a mercenary company because she always wanted to be a warrior like her cousin. Looks like Baen has that whole first book online if you want to give it a shot for free...

(Also, the friend who'd recced it to me had also recced, but with strong warnings about the content, Robin McKinley's Deerskin, so I really doubt Lela would have neglected to mention if this one was full of rape and trauma too...)