fannish types

[meganbmoore]

Here is an interesting post on two Intellectual and Emotional fans and approaches to fandom and fiction.  (Though I think "Analytical" is much more fitting than "Intellectual."  I think it represents the responses and comments better, and that most would be more willing to label themselves as such.)

See also:  Why Megan hates or is "meh" about many

Comments

[dangermousie]

I think kdramas are quite good at creating horrific backgrounds actually, which in reality would probably have heroes and heroines locked up with a constant stream of meds as opposed to being the semi-functioning, snazzily-dressed movers-n-shakers they are.

I can actually see wanting revenge on a whole family (haven't seen QotG so no idea how it works there). Bad enough grievance, I might want to do it myself :P As long as there is a believable reason for a character to be screwed up, I am OK. That goes not just for 'attractive' leads but any character: secondary, parent, or whatever.

I won't dislike a character unless I find them (a)unbelievable as a person or (b) doing bad things out of spoiledness, not trauma. Which luckily leaves me with most kdramas wide available.

Re: Thank You. I don't know if you'd hate it actually. The main thrust of the story is the male character coming to terms with his life (it's made pretty clear he was a very nice person before all this happened) and healing, and the heroine healing herself in her different ways, and even at his grumpiest, in the early eps, he always does good things when it counts. And he never patronizes the heroine (he is brusque with her the way he is with everyone at the beginning, but that is different, IMO) and in fact at the end he ends up working in a volunteer type clinic on the small rural island where she and her child live so he doesn't 'raise her up' a la Cinderella.

[meganbmoore]

QotG was actually handling it well at from what I saw, but at the same time, I had just finished watching Taiyou no Kisetsu, and wasn't up for another drama of someone ruining lives rather than deal with the person who was really at fault not being available to blame.

The thing about kdrama characters (especially guys) and me is that they often seem to be rather simplistic, and are rarely complex enough for me to buy into their problems. And...well...a lot of the guys do come across to me as spoiled in one way or another. This is also true of a lot of romantic shoujo. There's rarely enough to it for me to find the jerkiness justified or acceptable.

[dangermousie]

I think you will actually like both Kingdom of the Winds and East of Eden, then. The grown-up versions of the two main male charactets in EoE are only mad at the person who killed their father (and the company that covered the murder up), not everyone involved, and there isn't either jerkiness or cinderella syndrome at all.

And in the KotW, SIG's character has some awful things happen to him but he never becomes whiny or takes it out on people who are not responsible (or who he believes are responsible. E.g. he might hate the King for killing his friends, but he doesn't desire to off the King's wife or seduce the King's daughter or whatever).

Re: TnK. I just wanted the main male character in that one to jump off the roof. It's hardly as if the bank pres cheated and stabbed his father. And the kid he was trying to ruin was perfectly nice.

[meganbmoore]

The Korean period dramas I actually have a completely opposite reaction to. In general, I find them incredibly complex and the characters-even minor ones-incredibly well developed, and no one is directly villified or portrayed as wonderful, and even if I can't like or sympathize with a character, I can understand where they're coming from. But then, I consider Hwang Jin Yi, Emperor of the Sea, and Damo to be the best dramas I've seen (in that order, though not that preference...reverse preference, actually.)

In TnK, I think the text did a good enough job of portraying him as a creep and wrongwrongwrong that, while I wanted to punch him a lot and OMG GET OUT OF THESE NICE PEOPLE'S LIVES!!, it wasn't to the point of not being able to watch. But enough that a story with a similar root was not what I needed.

[worldserpent]

Just wandering in to say that totally agree with you on the greatness of Hwang Jin Yi and Damo. (I haven't seen Emperor of the Sea yet). I'm just really not sure why I prefer them so much more to most of the modern dramas I've seen, but maybe it's because they're not purely romance genre.

[meganbmoore]

Well, IMO, modern kdramas are, in general, fairly shallow, and most boil down to "rich guy financially or physically saves poor girl." Most of them, frankly, tend to treat their love interests badly for reasons exagerrated far beyond their mileage, and they tend to manipulate things to have "us against the world" for shallow reasons, and have anti-responsibility/family themes. (I mean, look at Goong. Shin's angst boils down to "I don't want to live up to the responsibilities of my station-which the entire country needs me to do-and my girlfriend rejected my ultimatum." I spent the entire time sympathizing with his mother and Hyo-Rin, and wanting to scream at him to get over himself.) In addition, while the heroines often seem to have plenty to do at first glance, it's usually "be cute but annoyed over hero->pine over hero as he pays attention to everyone else->repeat->get hero or die in the snow/cancer/get hit by a car." Even the shoujo I'm tempted to throw across the room does better on that front. Sageuks, however, seem to have much more complex (and tighter) plots, and there's a much more conscious effort put into making the female characters be more developed and have more to do.

[worldserpent]

There do seem to be some that are non-romance (though they usually do have romance in them, it doesn't follow the pattern you describe this badly). I recall watching one about a guy who worked in a casino, and another about people in the hotel industry. I am pretty much tired of the dynamic you're talking about. I had to stop watching Goong because I disliked Shin so much. Also because I found the story was just going on for too long.

[meganbmoore]

Goong could have worked if it were half as long. I kept watching because I'd been told everyone had problems with him, and that it got better and he was great. Possibly my worst viewing mistake ever, as I thought he-and the romance-just got worse and worse. By the end, he was my most hated drama character ever, and no one has even thought about challenging him for that position yet.

There are some non-romance contemporary ones, but they aren't the norm, and are pretty much hidden behind the rest. And some of the romance ones aren't like that. It's just that more of them are, and they're the ones that tend to be most popular. I think it's that they cater to the lowest common denominator, and so are easy to get into. It's also, I find, easier to talk endlessly about less complex things, including finding ways for them to be complex, when they really aren't. Really complex things tend to be difficult to pin down and explain, but something simple with a bit of "this is complex" coding over it is easier fodder.

BTW, I was looking at your Hwang Jin Yi posts earlier. It isn't really mentioned in the drama, but the guy who played her bodyguard is, historically, the one who loved her his whole life and always supported and took care of her (I think the bodyguard bit is more popular fiction than history, but he was an official of some sort), even though he wasn't her "great love," and they were together until he died.

[worldserpent]

This is a problem with a lot of kdrama, they are too long. I find that Japanese dramas tend to be shorter and thus more watchable. (Not that I've seen too many) It's too bad, I wanted to like Goong because I am a sucker for costumes and palaces and stuff, and there was some interesting stuff about the nature of fame and the clash between the modern and the traditional... But the romance annoyed me too much.

Oh, is that what it was. I was kind of confused by his purpose in the drama.

[meganbmoore]

I think they originally meant to include the romance with him, but decided to bring it full circle, with her art being her ultimate love instead. Still, it was nice to find out that she did end up with him. I spent a lot of the drama thinking about how, of the three men who loved her, he was the only one to truly realize and accept that her love of art would always come before any romantic love, and his love had already endured years of being second to anything else. In the long run, I don't think she could have been happy for more than a few years with the other two. No matter how much she loved them, she always loved her art more, and I don't think either could really share her with it, but he could.

[worldserpent]

Yeah, that was a different thing from a story with a woman as the main character, showing art as #1. It kind of reminded me on that point of Glass Mask, where that issue sort of covertly comes up (art to her is the foremost thing in life, beyond love).

[worldserpent]

Yeah, that was something different from a story with a woman as the main character, showing art as #1. It kind of reminded me on that point of Glass Mask, where that issue sort of covertly comes up (Like Hwang Jin Yi, she also lives for her art).

[meganbmoore]

I've always thought that the main reason Jin Yi was so desperate in her loves is because Baek-Moo told her they could never be first and that she could never live without them, and when you're that in love with art (which will almost always have a competitive edge, especially that kind) you almost can't help but rise to the challenge. Then, of course, she had the example of her mother and the man who loved her.

BTW, I hope you don't mind, but I friended you.

[worldserpent]

So a bit of rebellion against Baek-Moo? I can really see that. And after her death, she began to move beyond that.

Oh, I don't mind. As I say in my userinfo, I feel no one needs permission to friend me.