i have no intelligent title, say a lot, and i don't think i ever really come to a conclusion
I've been thinking about something I said in my post yesterday on Shana Abe's The Truelove Bride. Since I doubt most here will bother with reading under the cut of a post about a romance novel unless given a powerful incentive to, here's the part I'm referring to:
I love heroines who are struggling their hardest in the only way they know how against a world that just wants them to lie down and take it and be trampled on and let the men be in charge. It's part of my love for Ever After, Kingdom of Heaven, Gladiator(note that in all of these, everyone would have been better off if they'd all just shut up and let her be in charge) A Song of Ice and Fire(wait...how much bloodshed would have been avoided if the men had shut up and listened to Cat, again?) and, frankly, dozens of heroines most people dismiss out of hand that I don't feel like listing off one by one(though not all, of course, are ones where everyone should have shut up and let her be in charge.) It's part of why I've loved every sageuk I've seen so very much. And actually, I've been lucky enough to encounter a fair number of them lately. But in the process, I've noticed something: these women never really get to choose their own lives or get the freedom or control over their lives that they crave. Usually, they end up having to accept the lesser of two evils, the better of two bad choices. If they do get what they want, it's at enormous cost, typically a greater cost than what they've gained. At best, they're like Danielle, who gains love and the freedom she wants, but is never really understood or completely appreciated. Henry loves her enough to make her happy, but he'll never really GET her.
I think what made me notice it was Sonea in Trudi Canavan's Black Magician Trilogy. Sonea is a strong heroine, and a capable one, but within the first fifty pages Sonea was put in the position of being pitted against the world in terms of having anything to say about her own life. From that point on, she's always in a position of having to make the choice between two decisions, and neither option is anything she wants. Her life becomes "this path you don't want, or this one." Even in the end, when she's earned the right to live her own life, her society takes what freedom she still has from her, and tried to say it gave her freedom. This doesn't stop the series from being a good series, or undermine everything Sonea went through, but it just drives home how few rights and choices she has when, after all that, she still has no control over her own life.
I'm trying to think of characters like this who, in the end, actually do get what they want without losing as much or more in the process, and I'm mostly just coming up with Mulan. And lets face it, if Mulan weren't a Disney movie, her ending probably wouldn't be nearly as happy. I'm sure there are others that I'm not thinking of, but most of the ones that come to mind have that aspect changed almost from the start by meeting the hero, as opposed to that struggle being a part of their journey. Sarasa in Basara is a possibility, but her journey started with the slaughter of her father, brother, and most of her village, and her experiences and losses throughout the series would crush your average hero. Rin and Hyakurin in Blade of the Immortal may have things work out for them in the end, but, again, the gravity of what set them on their paths(not to mention everything that's already happened to them throughout the series) also puts them in the "great sacrifice" category. And go through about 30 more characters of various genres and it's more of the same.
A lot of these characters seem to boil down to four character-represented categories-Catelyn Stark(A Song of Ice and Fire) Lucilla(Gladiator) Sibylla(Kingdom of Heaven) and Danielle(Ever After)
There are probably better representatives for what I'm trying to say(or maybe not) but I figure these have the highest name recognition.
At the suckiest end of the spectrum, you have Catelyn Stark. At first, it seems like being Cat would be the easiest gig. You're respected, have a loving husband who's the kings best friend, five children, good land, etc. And yet, you have all this common sense and good advice, and everyone dismisses because you're a woman and a mother. This starts when to tell your huband not to do something stupid, but he does it anyway. End result? He gets killed, and your two daughters become(you're told) the hostages of the evil boy king and his manipulative mother. Later, you're faced with the worst choice in the world: which children you will be with. On the one hand, there's your two youngest children, Bran and Rickon. On the one hand, they're in what should be the safest place in the world: their home, surrounded by people who will love and protect them. On the other, one is little more than a toddler, and the other is recovering from an attempt on his life. But then there's your oldest son, Robb, barely more than a boy, chosen to become a rebel king in his father's name. While your youngest sons need you, they're surrounded by love and safety, while your oldest is going off into a world he isn't prepared for, surrounded by people who see him as a useful tool, not a person. You choose to go with him so there's at least someone there who wants Robb himself to stay alive. For the rest of the series, the stupid men ignore every word out of your mouth and dismiss you as a paranoid mother, while EVERY SINGLE BAD THING THAT HAPPENED THERE COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF THEY'D SHUT UP AND PUT YOU IN CHARGE! OR AT LEAST LISTENED! And may I just point out that your youngest sons were perfectly safe until your oldest son ignored you when you told him sending someone you didn't trust to your home was a bad idea. End result? Because you're a woman and no one listened to you, you die, Robb dies, various family members and friends die, and oh yeah, your home is ransacked and your young sons are believed dead, but are actually alive and cast helpless into the world. And we'll just not get into everything her daughters are going through...I have hopes things will at least somewhat work out for Arya and Sansa.
In between Cat and Danielle, there's Sibylla and Lucilla, who are in similar but not identical situations. Both women are respected and, as sisters of the king, in a position of influence, but they have no personal power. Lucilla is put in the position of attempting to control, and later stop, her brother, Commodus. She's able to influence Commodus because he loves her, but is also under his control, both because of her subordinate position, and because of her young son, who is Commodus's heir. From almost the beginning of the movie, it's made clear that Lucilla would be the perfect ruler of the Roman empire, but can't be because she's a woman, with the natural implication that, had she been born a man, none of the bloodshed and angst that followed would have been necessary. In the end, Commodus is defeated and she and her son are safe, but in the process she loses her father, brother and the man she loves(and, frankly, I've always been convinced that Commodus raped her the night before he died, as she no longer had any way to put him off.) She's also in the exact same position she was at the beginning of the movie: respected and in a position of influence because of her ties to the emperor, but with no personal power. Then there's Sibylla. In a similar position as Lucilla at first glance, save that it's her husband who is evil, and her brother, while a good king, is dying. Sibylla, like Lucilla, has respect ande influence but no power, despite clearly being suited to it. In the end, Sibylla gains freedom with the man she loves, but in the process she loses her brother, son and kingdom, and can never return to her homeland.
(ETA: Both being based on historical women and being Ridley Scott characters likely plays into the similarities and the character type, but I don't feel qualified to go deeply into that part of it.)
Then there's Danielle, at the opposite end of the spectrum from Cat. Danielle starts out independent minded and with many ideas and dreams, and at the end, she seems to have achieved them at first glance, having married the man(and prince) she loves and gained freedom from a life of servitude. She seems to now be in a position to make all her dreams come true, but she isn't. For all that Henry truly does love Danielle and want her to be happy, and for all that he loves that she has all these ideas for reform, he doesn't actually get any of them. He thinks "equality" and "utopia" means little more than inviting gypsies to a ball. Because he can't make the connection between the words coming out of Danielle's mouth and anything that may actually need fixing in the world, he'll never really understand her. Sure, he'll let her go around explaining her theories to people and encouraging them to read and think it's great, but as soon as she actually wants to change something, he'll put a halt to it, because he doesn't get why there should be a change. I don't doubt that Danielle will be loved and even happy with Henry, but she'll never really be fulfilled or understood.
I have no real conclusions to this beyond some I've stated in the past, and no idea if any of this really makes sense to anyone but me, but maybe it will. I feel I should have something to say about male heroes in these situations, but all I can come up with is "they die and become martyrs or they whomp the bad guy, achieve all their goals, get the girl and become famous heroes." Which I realize is a generalization, but it seems most of them end up on the Mulan end of things. (Not that I remotely begrudge Mulan her happy ending...)
I love heroines who are struggling their hardest in the only way they know how against a world that just wants them to lie down and take it and be trampled on and let the men be in charge. It's part of my love for Ever After, Kingdom of Heaven, Gladiator(note that in all of these, everyone would have been better off if they'd all just shut up and let her be in charge) A Song of Ice and Fire(wait...how much bloodshed would have been avoided if the men had shut up and listened to Cat, again?) and, frankly, dozens of heroines most people dismiss out of hand that I don't feel like listing off one by one(though not all, of course, are ones where everyone should have shut up and let her be in charge.) It's part of why I've loved every sageuk I've seen so very much. And actually, I've been lucky enough to encounter a fair number of them lately. But in the process, I've noticed something: these women never really get to choose their own lives or get the freedom or control over their lives that they crave. Usually, they end up having to accept the lesser of two evils, the better of two bad choices. If they do get what they want, it's at enormous cost, typically a greater cost than what they've gained. At best, they're like Danielle, who gains love and the freedom she wants, but is never really understood or completely appreciated. Henry loves her enough to make her happy, but he'll never really GET her.
I think what made me notice it was Sonea in Trudi Canavan's Black Magician Trilogy. Sonea is a strong heroine, and a capable one, but within the first fifty pages Sonea was put in the position of being pitted against the world in terms of having anything to say about her own life. From that point on, she's always in a position of having to make the choice between two decisions, and neither option is anything she wants. Her life becomes "this path you don't want, or this one." Even in the end, when she's earned the right to live her own life, her society takes what freedom she still has from her, and tried to say it gave her freedom. This doesn't stop the series from being a good series, or undermine everything Sonea went through, but it just drives home how few rights and choices she has when, after all that, she still has no control over her own life.
I'm trying to think of characters like this who, in the end, actually do get what they want without losing as much or more in the process, and I'm mostly just coming up with Mulan. And lets face it, if Mulan weren't a Disney movie, her ending probably wouldn't be nearly as happy. I'm sure there are others that I'm not thinking of, but most of the ones that come to mind have that aspect changed almost from the start by meeting the hero, as opposed to that struggle being a part of their journey. Sarasa in Basara is a possibility, but her journey started with the slaughter of her father, brother, and most of her village, and her experiences and losses throughout the series would crush your average hero. Rin and Hyakurin in Blade of the Immortal may have things work out for them in the end, but, again, the gravity of what set them on their paths(not to mention everything that's already happened to them throughout the series) also puts them in the "great sacrifice" category. And go through about 30 more characters of various genres and it's more of the same.
A lot of these characters seem to boil down to four character-represented categories-Catelyn Stark(A Song of Ice and Fire) Lucilla(Gladiator) Sibylla(Kingdom of Heaven) and Danielle(Ever After)
There are probably better representatives for what I'm trying to say(or maybe not) but I figure these have the highest name recognition.
At the suckiest end of the spectrum, you have Catelyn Stark. At first, it seems like being Cat would be the easiest gig. You're respected, have a loving husband who's the kings best friend, five children, good land, etc. And yet, you have all this common sense and good advice, and everyone dismisses because you're a woman and a mother. This starts when to tell your huband not to do something stupid, but he does it anyway. End result? He gets killed, and your two daughters become(you're told) the hostages of the evil boy king and his manipulative mother. Later, you're faced with the worst choice in the world: which children you will be with. On the one hand, there's your two youngest children, Bran and Rickon. On the one hand, they're in what should be the safest place in the world: their home, surrounded by people who will love and protect them. On the other, one is little more than a toddler, and the other is recovering from an attempt on his life. But then there's your oldest son, Robb, barely more than a boy, chosen to become a rebel king in his father's name. While your youngest sons need you, they're surrounded by love and safety, while your oldest is going off into a world he isn't prepared for, surrounded by people who see him as a useful tool, not a person. You choose to go with him so there's at least someone there who wants Robb himself to stay alive. For the rest of the series, the stupid men ignore every word out of your mouth and dismiss you as a paranoid mother, while EVERY SINGLE BAD THING THAT HAPPENED THERE COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF THEY'D SHUT UP AND PUT YOU IN CHARGE! OR AT LEAST LISTENED! And may I just point out that your youngest sons were perfectly safe until your oldest son ignored you when you told him sending someone you didn't trust to your home was a bad idea. End result? Because you're a woman and no one listened to you, you die, Robb dies, various family members and friends die, and oh yeah, your home is ransacked and your young sons are believed dead, but are actually alive and cast helpless into the world. And we'll just not get into everything her daughters are going through...I have hopes things will at least somewhat work out for Arya and Sansa.
In between Cat and Danielle, there's Sibylla and Lucilla, who are in similar but not identical situations. Both women are respected and, as sisters of the king, in a position of influence, but they have no personal power. Lucilla is put in the position of attempting to control, and later stop, her brother, Commodus. She's able to influence Commodus because he loves her, but is also under his control, both because of her subordinate position, and because of her young son, who is Commodus's heir. From almost the beginning of the movie, it's made clear that Lucilla would be the perfect ruler of the Roman empire, but can't be because she's a woman, with the natural implication that, had she been born a man, none of the bloodshed and angst that followed would have been necessary. In the end, Commodus is defeated and she and her son are safe, but in the process she loses her father, brother and the man she loves(and, frankly, I've always been convinced that Commodus raped her the night before he died, as she no longer had any way to put him off.) She's also in the exact same position she was at the beginning of the movie: respected and in a position of influence because of her ties to the emperor, but with no personal power. Then there's Sibylla. In a similar position as Lucilla at first glance, save that it's her husband who is evil, and her brother, while a good king, is dying. Sibylla, like Lucilla, has respect ande influence but no power, despite clearly being suited to it. In the end, Sibylla gains freedom with the man she loves, but in the process she loses her brother, son and kingdom, and can never return to her homeland.
(ETA: Both being based on historical women and being Ridley Scott characters likely plays into the similarities and the character type, but I don't feel qualified to go deeply into that part of it.)
Then there's Danielle, at the opposite end of the spectrum from Cat. Danielle starts out independent minded and with many ideas and dreams, and at the end, she seems to have achieved them at first glance, having married the man(and prince) she loves and gained freedom from a life of servitude. She seems to now be in a position to make all her dreams come true, but she isn't. For all that Henry truly does love Danielle and want her to be happy, and for all that he loves that she has all these ideas for reform, he doesn't actually get any of them. He thinks "equality" and "utopia" means little more than inviting gypsies to a ball. Because he can't make the connection between the words coming out of Danielle's mouth and anything that may actually need fixing in the world, he'll never really understand her. Sure, he'll let her go around explaining her theories to people and encouraging them to read and think it's great, but as soon as she actually wants to change something, he'll put a halt to it, because he doesn't get why there should be a change. I don't doubt that Danielle will be loved and even happy with Henry, but she'll never really be fulfilled or understood.
I have no real conclusions to this beyond some I've stated in the past, and no idea if any of this really makes sense to anyone but me, but maybe it will. I feel I should have something to say about male heroes in these situations, but all I can come up with is "they die and become martyrs or they whomp the bad guy, achieve all their goals, get the girl and become famous heroes." Which I realize is a generalization, but it seems most of them end up on the Mulan end of things. (Not that I remotely begrudge Mulan her happy ending...)