A Feast for Crows by George R.R. Martin

[meganbmoore]

I have to say, while this volume was technically as good as the other books, I wasn’t as involved in it.  Partly because, as compared to Storm of Swords(but only that, not pretty much any other book in existence) not a lot happened, but more because, really, half the characters I care about weren’t in this one(or were only in one chapter and from

Comments

[meganbmoore]

As far as the consummation goes, though, one person there at least testifies that he was definately physically ready to consummate the marriage at the time.

I've always taken sex in the series to be what it was in many past societies: You have what you prefer, but if something else is available you take it, especially if you're the one in the position of authority(as is the case with Cersei and Dany, though Dany seemed much less hesitant about it later, though still not happy)

But, like I said in a reply to the other...I've had comic, manga and anime fans insisting that each and everything is proof a canonically straight character is really gay that I tend to be VERY leery of anything that isn't the writer stating it, or making it extremely obvious. In the case of Renly and Loras, many "signs" can be read in several ways...for example, when reading it in the book, I took the Renly/Stannis conversation to be Stannis not really regarding Renly as a man and thinking him incapsable of getting it up, in a "me strong man, you sissy wuss" way, as opposed to anything else, because it fit what was going on.

[magicnoire]

Oh I know. It didn't really hit me that Renly and Loras were lovers until
Jaime said what he did to Loras and Loras made that comment about the sun setting and I was like, "OMG, I am an idiot."

And I do agree: the anime and manga fandoms are bad about that. I'm the complete opposite and blind to same-sex pairings there unless it's blatantly obvious or, you know, a BL title.

But this is GRRM we're talking about and he is a very deliberate writer (it's part of the reason why he takes so long, argh) so if there's a hint, it's usually not accidental. It'll either be true, a misconception, or a red herring, depending on who's narrating at the time, since he is very trixy when it comes to characterization.

[meganbmoore]

I keep approaching it from a earopean medieval and even asian perspective, where guys would make comments like that regarding guys they DIDN'T have any romantic feelings for. And Jaime...well, he was in a bad mood...I took it as his being pissed.

If it's not a yaoi title and the character isn't obviously gay(as in, Hana Kimi's Umeda) I assume they're straight...as they pretty much almost always ARE straight. I really try to avoid anime and manga fandoms for the most part for just that reason. The only one I've really let myself get into is the love_deeper comm for SDK. But then, at least in the archives I've looked at and discussions I've seen since joining, even with people who ship non-canon m/m, there's nothing resembling the rabid hatred for Yuya, Mahiro, etc. like there is with other female characters in books with multiple guys. Of course, given some of the things Akimine Kamijyo put Kyo and Yuya through, esp. towards the end, people would probably feel rather guilty about being mean to them in fanfic(even if they still occassionally make her into a shrewish harpy...which is stupid, as, while temperamental, she's about the sweetest girl ever born.)

[magicnoire]

In the very early days of love_deeper, there was some significant hate for Yuya but after one particular heated thread, the original mods came down hard so it stopped, which was nice. I do recall in those days feeling like I was in the minority for liking Kyo/Yuya.

Mind you,"significant hate" is relative. It was nothing compared to what you found in, say, the Gundam Wing fandom, which took it to new levels, but it seemed like a lot for a fandom that's otherwise laid back and chill.

Reading-wise, I do actually prefer more subtle writing overall so if there's a legitimate canon hint, I tend to pick up on it quickly. And I do mean real one, not "These two hawt guys were in the same panel on page 25 in volume 13 so obviously they are teh ghei lovers!" That's the one facet of fandom that drives me up the wall. It's one thing to pick up tiny clues; it's another thing to project your own wish-fulfillment on an unsuspecting story.

[meganbmoore]

yeah, i've seen some hate for yuya in older threads, but, like you said, nothing resembling other fandoms(ever read fushigi yugi?) Most of what I've seen is annoyance as opposed to hate, though. I think part of it is that Yuya has a brain and is actually useful at times, Okuni and Mahiro have skills, Kousuke must endure Yukimura's whims nd eccentricities, etc...really, the only DID handwringer is Sakuya, who's baely in the book. I've always been rather psycho about Kyo/Yuya(ever click my SDK tag?) I mean how do you NOT ship when he has a tendency to go ballistic and try to destroy anything and everything in the time zone any time she's hurt? And she'd do the same if she wer, you know, of the near-demonic persuasion...

Yeah, I prefer subtle writing, but I prefer not to assume writers mean one thing when another possible meaning is available. Unfortunately, as most m/m pairings I've encountered exist solely in the heads of fans, I tend to completely miss them.

[mariem_1]

As far as the consummation goes, though, one person there at least testifies that he was definately physically ready to consummate the marriage at the time.

Taena is hardly a reliable witness, though. Afterall, she also testified that Tyrion poisoned Joffrey's wine.

[meganbmoore]

Personally, I think the marriage was consummated, Renly may have(imo) been stupid, but not THAT stupid...I think the marriage was consummated and then he kept Margaery with him hoping to hide what was really going on.

As far as Taena goes, well, honestly, I'd be surprised if anyone at the wedding couldn't have(as far as they knew) honestly testified that they saw Tyrion kill Joffrey. Even though WE know he didn't do it, Tyrion would probably get convicted in a modern court.