*brain goes pop with blind rage* (or, misconceptions about shojo manga)
So, I decided to look up pics and info about Haou Airen, a manga
dangermousiehas been talking about lately(in a "diediedie you horrible mysogynistic book!" way) to see if it's as bad as it sounds. Before I got very far, I stumbled across this lovely gem about shojo manga. (
dangermousieis this the one you mentioned a while back?)
If you don't want to read it, it's essentially about most shojo being about dormat heroines who let themselves be physically and sexually bullied by domineering men. Which? Not in the books I read. Your biggest clue about how the article as a whole will go is when, near the beginning, critics are belittled for looking at quality first. For the most part, it seems the writers hated Hana Yori Dango and Hot Gimmick, and just read bits and summaries of the others. And the summary/example at the beginning? Never read a shojo like that myself.
Now, first I WILL give them credit of pointing out Alice 19th as a book where the dormat becomes a strong character(which is why I liked that book, though nothing tops Juuni Kokuki/Twelve Kingdoms in that regard), referring to Basara as well-written(though they more than lost those points with other things about Basara) and apparently getting the point of the rtole of sex in Mars. And for other things...well, I won't touch Sensual Phrase for some of the reasons detailed. However, I was bored by the first volume of Hot Gimmick and didn't bother to read more, but according to the article, the hero demands sexual favors from the heroine, which I didn't remember at all(and I checked with
forgottenpolish, who HAS read it and she says that I remember correctly and that's not the case)
But then they go and bring up books like Hana Yori Dango. Now, I haven't read the manga but I HAVE watched the Japanese live action series, and I'm currently about 2/3s through Meteor Garden, the Taiwanese version. And...huh? Makino/Shan Cai gives as good-if not better than-she gets and never allows herself to be dominated, sexually or otherwise. She makes Si/Domyoji work harder than any other guy I've seen have to work. Which makes me wonder just what "Tsukushi from Boys Over Flowers is for the most part a strong female character who stands up for herself and her beliefs, so why on Earth does she think the assholes around her (guilty of repeat physical and/or verbal and/or emotional abuse offenses) are worth considering a relationship with? " has to do with the series beyond the first phrase.
And their examples? Very little context is provided for them, in text or pictures. As such, I am going to take all of it as the one picture and scene that I recognize, which is this:
from the Basara anime(I posted the actual scene from the manga here last night.) It's beside a section about manga where the hero rapes or almost rapes the heroine.
The context? He trips her, tries to kiss her, and gets punched in the face for his efforts. It's made clear that he gets the concept of "no means no" and abides by it. The scene establishes that, yeah, he's a playboy, but only if the girl is willing to go for it(it's just rare that a girl objects, but when she does, he pays attention) I'd hardly give it cause to be the chosen example for women who fall for rapists and attempted rapists. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite. Given that the one "example"I recognize is actually the opposite of what they're implying, all I can do is assume that, given actual context, the other "examples" have as much merit.
Also, from the article-if you haven't read shojo-you'd assume that all shojo is like that despite a few passing mentions of those who aren't. What about shojo manga that's not remotely like anything discussed in the article, of which there's a LOT, one of which, Fruits Basket, is the highest selling shojo title in the US? There, the abusive person is actually a woman who pretends to be a man, and most of the male characters-certainly all the main ones-are consistently portrayed as caring and supportive. There are dominant themes of abuse, yes, but they are portrayed as being horrible and damaging and things the characters have to grow and recover from, as opposed to good things. Two other examples that immediately come to mind are Hana Kimi-where Sano is extremely protective but not the least bit possessive, and is more concerned about being with Mizuki in ANY context than he is about being in charge or having sex with her-and W Juliet-where Makoto, while an alpha male and very teasing and occassionally possessive, isn't remotely domineering; in fact the relationship is always at a level that Ito is most comfortable with, and as it's what keeps her happy, it's the level her likes. There are plenty of other examples, but those are the ones that pop to mind.
Now, I'm not saying that they don't have any good points(because the core problems they have are valid in some cases stated) or that no shojo titles are like that(because they are) just that based on the shojo I've read and what I know of the titles listed that I'm familiar with, they're apparently as well connected with the reality of the genre as they seem to think the genre makes its readers. Which is "not very."
ETA: I just realized that I am VERY happy that some books...like Samurai Deeper Kyo...aren't shojo...they would have filled up SCREENS on SDK.
dangermousiehas been talking about lately(in a "diediedie you horrible mysogynistic book!" way) to see if it's as bad as it sounds. Before I got very far, I stumbled across this lovely gem about shojo manga. (
dangermousieis this the one you mentioned a while back?)
If you don't want to read it, it's essentially about most shojo being about dormat heroines who let themselves be physically and sexually bullied by domineering men. Which? Not in the books I read. Your biggest clue about how the article as a whole will go is when, near the beginning, critics are belittled for looking at quality first. For the most part, it seems the writers hated Hana Yori Dango and Hot Gimmick, and just read bits and summaries of the others. And the summary/example at the beginning? Never read a shojo like that myself.
Now, first I WILL give them credit of pointing out Alice 19th as a book where the dormat becomes a strong character(which is why I liked that book, though nothing tops Juuni Kokuki/Twelve Kingdoms in that regard), referring to Basara as well-written(though they more than lost those points with other things about Basara) and apparently getting the point of the rtole of sex in Mars. And for other things...well, I won't touch Sensual Phrase for some of the reasons detailed. However, I was bored by the first volume of Hot Gimmick and didn't bother to read more, but according to the article, the hero demands sexual favors from the heroine, which I didn't remember at all(and I checked with
forgottenpolish, who HAS read it and she says that I remember correctly and that's not the case)
But then they go and bring up books like Hana Yori Dango. Now, I haven't read the manga but I HAVE watched the Japanese live action series, and I'm currently about 2/3s through Meteor Garden, the Taiwanese version. And...huh? Makino/Shan Cai gives as good-if not better than-she gets and never allows herself to be dominated, sexually or otherwise. She makes Si/Domyoji work harder than any other guy I've seen have to work. Which makes me wonder just what "Tsukushi from Boys Over Flowers is for the most part a strong female character who stands up for herself and her beliefs, so why on Earth does she think the assholes around her (guilty of repeat physical and/or verbal and/or emotional abuse offenses) are worth considering a relationship with? " has to do with the series beyond the first phrase.
And their examples? Very little context is provided for them, in text or pictures. As such, I am going to take all of it as the one picture and scene that I recognize, which is this:
from the Basara anime(I posted the actual scene from the manga here last night.) It's beside a section about manga where the hero rapes or almost rapes the heroine.
The context? He trips her, tries to kiss her, and gets punched in the face for his efforts. It's made clear that he gets the concept of "no means no" and abides by it. The scene establishes that, yeah, he's a playboy, but only if the girl is willing to go for it(it's just rare that a girl objects, but when she does, he pays attention) I'd hardly give it cause to be the chosen example for women who fall for rapists and attempted rapists. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite. Given that the one "example"I recognize is actually the opposite of what they're implying, all I can do is assume that, given actual context, the other "examples" have as much merit.
Also, from the article-if you haven't read shojo-you'd assume that all shojo is like that despite a few passing mentions of those who aren't. What about shojo manga that's not remotely like anything discussed in the article, of which there's a LOT, one of which, Fruits Basket, is the highest selling shojo title in the US? There, the abusive person is actually a woman who pretends to be a man, and most of the male characters-certainly all the main ones-are consistently portrayed as caring and supportive. There are dominant themes of abuse, yes, but they are portrayed as being horrible and damaging and things the characters have to grow and recover from, as opposed to good things. Two other examples that immediately come to mind are Hana Kimi-where Sano is extremely protective but not the least bit possessive, and is more concerned about being with Mizuki in ANY context than he is about being in charge or having sex with her-and W Juliet-where Makoto, while an alpha male and very teasing and occassionally possessive, isn't remotely domineering; in fact the relationship is always at a level that Ito is most comfortable with, and as it's what keeps her happy, it's the level her likes. There are plenty of other examples, but those are the ones that pop to mind.
Now, I'm not saying that they don't have any good points(because the core problems they have are valid in some cases stated) or that no shojo titles are like that(because they are) just that based on the shojo I've read and what I know of the titles listed that I'm familiar with, they're apparently as well connected with the reality of the genre as they seem to think the genre makes its readers. Which is "not very."
ETA: I just realized that I am VERY happy that some books...like Samurai Deeper Kyo...aren't shojo...they would have filled up SCREENS on SDK.