Philosophy question of the day, continued
Thank you to those who answered - you've given me much to think about and consider, and I've both strengthened and expanded my theory. If you still would like to respond, I'd LOVE to hear what you have to say - the more input the better.
A smattering/sampling of answers, interestingly received in this order:
--- and it wouldn't be good for the other person to get away with setting me up to be hurt, either.
--- There is a difference between a hurt because someone is being an ass and a hurt that allows a growth.......experience.
--- I suppose I'm saying its worth it even though I don't believe you can avoid the pain.
--- Curiosity, whether emotional or scientific, must be assuaged.
As with any experiment, all you can do is triple check your safety equipment and procedures and make sure of your ethical and moral grounding.
If the cost of the experiment is not measured in suffering to others, then there is nothing that should keep one from greater understanding.
The variety in answers helped me look at the question from different perspectives, and helped me further define things I believe about human nature, love, consequences, and personal growth. It also brought a certainty and conviction to my soul about the morality of *my* actions.
I don't believe that hurting someone else deliberately is in anyone's best interest, nor for the social/emotional/spiritual fabric of society as a whole. That said, I would defend my children to the death, and admit fully that if anyone were ever to seriously hurt them, it would take every fiber of my being to not track that person down and extract revenge. I can pretend all I want that I'm capable of spiritual enlightenment, but the fact remains that I am human, which by its very definition means flawed.
I found it interesting you need to give someone permission to hurt you. This ties in with my belief that we all create our own realities to a very large extent, and we are all responsible for our own actions and REACTIONS to events. (I, of course, realize that given the currently understood laws of physics, a punch to the jaw, or being raped or murdered is NOT necessarily under someone's "control", but circumstances other than strictly physical are a two-way street.) (Oh, and a caveat, 'cuz I'm weird this way - I suppose if one were NOT to truly believe in the laws of physics, than those situations would also be within your control - think Matrix or Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.)
If I'm coming from a place of certainty that my actions are right and/or moral, others' judgement of those actions are drastically weakened. I am, of course, a pragmatist, too. There ARE seemingly unavoidable consequences for certain actions in our society, based upon the prevailing notion of morality, but I would be secure in both my heart and soul that I was following a proper path.
I also believe in the inherent goodness of people. I sometimes struggle to remember it, or find that my hope is laying in tatters on the floor, but if one believes in the indestructibility of matter, it becomes, after a great deal of practice, a relatively simple process to fit that hope back together again! It's not gone, or lessened, merely transformed into a slightly different existence. (Yes - physics and conservation of energy - if you didn't realize it before, I'm a geek, both philosophically and scientifically!)
If *I'm* acting morally, and consciously, and without thought of hurting the person in return, I guess my hope is that that 'better nature' of the other person will show itself. Turn towards the 'stronger' gravitational force. :::smile::: (Ooh ooh - astrophysics and Star Wars!)
I'm still doing a cost/benefit analysis, and making contingency plans for possible consequences, but those are just details.
I find if one person has the capacity and opportunity to grow, even from a painful experience, so do the others involved.
I am an insatiably curious person. A friend told me once that everyone has a driving force in their lives, that infuses every action and every thought, and he determined that mine is knowledge.
I still refuse to live my life out of fear instead of hope.
A smattering/sampling of answers, interestingly received in this order:
--- and it wouldn't be good for the other person to get away with setting me up to be hurt, either.
--- There is a difference between a hurt because someone is being an ass and a hurt that allows a growth.......experience.
--- I suppose I'm saying its worth it even though I don't believe you can avoid the pain.
--- Curiosity, whether emotional or scientific, must be assuaged.
As with any experiment, all you can do is triple check your safety equipment and procedures and make sure of your ethical and moral grounding.
If the cost of the experiment is not measured in suffering to others, then there is nothing that should keep one from greater understanding.
The variety in answers helped me look at the question from different perspectives, and helped me further define things I believe about human nature, love, consequences, and personal growth. It also brought a certainty and conviction to my soul about the morality of *my* actions.
I don't believe that hurting someone else deliberately is in anyone's best interest, nor for the social/emotional/spiritual fabric of society as a whole. That said, I would defend my children to the death, and admit fully that if anyone were ever to seriously hurt them, it would take every fiber of my being to not track that person down and extract revenge. I can pretend all I want that I'm capable of spiritual enlightenment, but the fact remains that I am human, which by its very definition means flawed.
I found it interesting you need to give someone permission to hurt you. This ties in with my belief that we all create our own realities to a very large extent, and we are all responsible for our own actions and REACTIONS to events. (I, of course, realize that given the currently understood laws of physics, a punch to the jaw, or being raped or murdered is NOT necessarily under someone's "control", but circumstances other than strictly physical are a two-way street.) (Oh, and a caveat, 'cuz I'm weird this way - I suppose if one were NOT to truly believe in the laws of physics, than those situations would also be within your control - think Matrix or Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.)
If I'm coming from a place of certainty that my actions are right and/or moral, others' judgement of those actions are drastically weakened. I am, of course, a pragmatist, too. There ARE seemingly unavoidable consequences for certain actions in our society, based upon the prevailing notion of morality, but I would be secure in both my heart and soul that I was following a proper path.
I also believe in the inherent goodness of people. I sometimes struggle to remember it, or find that my hope is laying in tatters on the floor, but if one believes in the indestructibility of matter, it becomes, after a great deal of practice, a relatively simple process to fit that hope back together again! It's not gone, or lessened, merely transformed into a slightly different existence. (Yes - physics and conservation of energy - if you didn't realize it before, I'm a geek, both philosophically and scientifically!)
If *I'm* acting morally, and consciously, and without thought of hurting the person in return, I guess my hope is that that 'better nature' of the other person will show itself. Turn towards the 'stronger' gravitational force. :::smile::: (Ooh ooh - astrophysics and Star Wars!)
I'm still doing a cost/benefit analysis, and making contingency plans for possible consequences, but those are just details.
I find if one person has the capacity and opportunity to grow, even from a painful experience, so do the others involved.
I am an insatiably curious person. A friend told me once that everyone has a driving force in their lives, that infuses every action and every thought, and he determined that mine is knowledge.
I still refuse to live my life out of fear instead of hope.