No, you can't respond.

Oct 15, 2008 00:54

First of all, I need to go to bed ( Read more... )

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frescavergene October 29 2008, 18:08:38 UTC
What are you talking about???? Jefferson and Madison were not the only Framers. The government involvment back then is completely different from what people want NOW. You can't possibly use a system from 200 or so years ago for now. That's like trying to talk on a tin can phone. Also. You can't say Jefferson and Madison where strictly republicans. There's still hot historical debate going on today. And I NEVER said that "the idea that the founding fathers made a system that was made to further involve the government."

I said: "The founding fathers created a balanced system in which the government was pretty involved." KEYWORD: balanced.

1. The books I recommended are written by acreditted history professors and economists. Radicalism of the American Revolution is about the politics that went on in that period and the formation of the government. Lots of drama. A GREAT READ. It's hardly opinion. Same thing with the other American history book I recommended. Those I've both read for history and poli sci coursess. I'm offended that you think I get my information strictly from nightly news etc. I listen to NPR in the mornings and get most of my information from reading books without bias. I like to read Al Frank for an occasional chuckle too.

Also, don't pull the family card. That's not fair. Just because I don't have a kid yet or am not married doesn't mean I don't think about what the future means to me. I hope to finish my BA work,get into law school, and be able to afford to have a family. When I have my family I don't want to make ends meet. I owe that to my future kids and myself. And I won't mind paying a little extra on my income tax to people who deserve it. I think you have me pegged wrong.

When did we start discussing illegal immigration? I don't think I brought that up. Do I have to explain myself there? I NEVER SAID ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS SHOULD BE GETTING BENEFITS FROM OUR GOVERNMENT. This pisses me off that you automatically assume I would be for something like that. I have an idea why you would think that but I'm not gonna pull any cards out.

Also, I waited tables too. Not anywhere fancy. The Humble City Cafe and where waitresses go to die (Waffle House).

We aren't gonna be in a big depression in 5 years. The economy is starting to heal itself already. If the bailout was so unsuccessful what do you suggest?

Hayek and Stiglitz don't write political opinion. They're highly respected economists with opposing viewpoints. I had figured you'd enjoy the reads. Nevermind.

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mechanicalsoul October 29 2008, 19:22:01 UTC
"What are you talking about???? Jefferson and Madison were not the only Framers. "
I didn't say they were, was just using them as examples.

"You can't possibly use a system from 200 or so years ago for now. That's like trying to talk on a tin can phone. Also. You can't say Jefferson and Madison where strictly republicans."
You most certainly use the principles of the system back then. Of course things have changed, but I figured that would have been assumed. Those principles are a foundation of a working system; that of which this current system barely holds on to.

"I said: "The founding fathers created a balanced system in which the government was pretty involved." KEYWORD: balanced.

KEYWORD to reasoning of what I said: "system in which the government was pretty involved."
By saying "pretty involved" you're insinuating the government had a large part in the system, which actually kinda means it would be "unbalanced."

"I'm offended that you think I get my information strictly from nightly news etc. I listen to NPR in the mornings and get most of my information from reading books without bias."
I didn't say you did, in fact I kind of insinuated the opposite. I just suggested you read unbiased news of current events. It is indeed hard to search for the golden parts of news out of the internet that aren't complete and total bullshit, but there are some.

Also, don't pull the family card. That's not fair. Just because I don't have a kid yet or am not married doesn't mean I don't think about what the future means to me.
It's not fair that I can't use my own experiences just because you haven't done it yet. And there were a lot of things I thought before I had a kid, but believe me, everything changes when you do; opinions, goals, everything. And I'm sorry but you just cannot say for a fact that you'll feel the same when you have a family of your own. Now, that's not to say you absolutely WILL, cause you may keep your drives, opinions, etc the same, but it's unusual. In that situation you just can't fully know what the future will be because a family 99% of the time changes A LOT of personal opinions, situations, etc.

"When I have my family I don't want to make ends meet. I owe that to my future kids and myself.
Now, it seems here, while you may not have intended it, from my personal remark about our family struggling, that I am somehow doing my family injustice since you seem to "owe that to your future kids and self." I work my ass off for my family, and we were doing just fine until certain events just made it a bit harder, but that's life, and shit happens, but it doesn't make me less of a good parent and that is offensive from that statement because it insinuates you seem to "be above all of that."
Even if you weren't intending that, I'd just be careful what you say to people with families, a lot can be interpreted differently, and it's very offensive when you challenge someone's capability to keep a family financially stable.
We never put ourselves into credit debt BECAUSE we don't want to do that to this family. The job market is just difficult which is beyond our control.

(to be continued next reply...)

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frescavergene October 29 2008, 23:26:22 UTC
Wow. Just wow. You clearly have adequacy issues. In no way was I talking about you. That response came from me thinking about how I don't want to make the same mistakes my parents did because financial burden can sometimes create unhappy marriages and families. But I didn't wanna put that all out there. You try to project this image in your journal that you having a family and financial burdens makes you somehow more mature and adult, it doesn't. Your entries are often erratic and have no flow. You're too self righteous for your own good and I hope you find peace and happiness someday and leave all this negativity,insecurity behind you.

This economy is not going to get worse. Don't buy into the fear tactics.

The Humble City cafe was run by racist shitbastards and is by no means cute. Several people, including whites, quit when I was there.

Stiglitz and Hayek are current. As is ROFTAM...it reflects on why things happen now as a result of politics back then.

Bye.

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mechanicalsoul October 30 2008, 12:39:53 UTC
THIS whole response was clearly an attack. In fact, I said "even if you did NOT intend" but you had to go and make it personal.
I have never insulted you OR your entries, and you never having been through what I'm going through gives you no kind of stand to say whether or not I am a mature adult. You sit there and judge me, YOU clearly are the one who is self righteous.
My entries no way reflect how I act every day. I have my own life and I act like a mother should act, I vent in my journal about my inner feelings and let go, and the fact you've never seen how I act and the pressures and hard work I go through and still sit there and judge how I am as a person is incredibly insulting, and still more self-righteous than I could EVER be. You can never look through the eyes of a person with a different opinion than you because you're too damn busy trying to think how you're so right to even bother.

I work at a fucking financial institution. I have a financial broker, I SEE how the stock market goes first hand. You do not. You cannot tell me how it goes because you are not as accessible, it's just the way things are.

I said the cafe was cute itself, the way it looked, I never said anything about how it was run because I never knew how it was run. You can't even take anything positive I say because you turn it around as if somehow I attacked something. Again, you are the one who is negative.

I post things that are negative because what's there to post or vent when things are going good?
"Hey. Things are going good. K bye"?

That's boring and requires no venting.
You took the low road and turned to insults and I'm disappointed in your tactics. You know nothing about me or how I act in front of my family. You are incredibly insulting and have some growing up to do.

Enjoy your life as I'm sure you will, because you apparently are so right, and when you may possibly not be, you just cannot believe it and turn to insults.

I pity you.

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perditia October 30 2008, 15:08:29 UTC
Wow, indeed. Its unfortunate that two intelligent women can't discuss opposing views, but I think the assertiveness and indignation that is usually an overwhelming strong and positive quality for you each is both exacerbated and and poisoned when you argue. Micah may sensitively read in to something and cautiously call it into question and then bam - no more discussion she receives an outright personal attack with both of you vowing never to speak again.

I really hope it sticks this time, because whenever Sarah chooses to comment here what are under most any other circumstance strengths for you guy blow up all over the place. I hate to advocate that people stop debating... ever... but the same pattern has repeated over and over. Micah doesn't need to be insulted on her own journal, you know? No one needs that.

Bearing the responsibility of making these haughty accusations; I will calmly and dutifully try to explain these remarks if either of you would need me to - especially Micah since its your journal I stuck my nose into. I feel since I took the initiative to criticize, I should have the patience to respect your absolute right to call whatever I say into question. Even if your question is confusing to me, I'll try to reach an understanding.

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mechanicalsoul October 30 2008, 16:33:01 UTC
I agree with you. It just seemed when I seemed to present a good opposing case, it seemed her only rebuttal was insult, and that just completely nullified any sort of credibility to her arguments. And just the flat out denial of facts is astounding. As Kurt would say, it's like talking to a Christian.
As far as talking again, that's fine, she deleted me off her friends (OH NO THE HORROR!) and I took her off mine so I don't even know if she'll be able to read it (maybe I'll put it off friends only for a little bit). Either way, I shouldn't have gotten into it anyways cause I had a feeling it would end like this, then she would just plug her ears basically and go "lalalalalala I'm right" which is what she did.

I always value your opinion so don't ever feel you're "sticking your nose in" cause I always like to hear your advice and comments :D

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mechanicalsoul October 29 2008, 19:24:25 UTC

"When did we start discussing illegal immigration? I don't think I brought that up. Do I have to explain myself there? I NEVER SAID ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS SHOULD BE GETTING BENEFITS FROM OUR GOVERNMENT. This pisses me off that you automatically assume I would be for something like that.
Uhmm, nowhere did I say that you were for that. Again, examples. That was merely an example of one of the unnecessary things that our government wastes money on that is from American taxpayers. I was simply asking (since you had mentioned earlier how you were waaayyy much more towards social issues) you that if our money was to go to social means, and you care a lot about people, shouldn't the American taxpayers at least have their money go to Americans? In no way did I say you were for illegal immigration, I was just asking you a question. Calm down chick.

"The Humble City Cafe and where waitresses go to die (Waffle House).
Oh yeah I've been there. I think it's cute. Very antique-ey. But I would assume that you wouldn't get much, it is in old Humble (I worked at the Black Eye Pea in Humble, believe me, I know your struggle).

We aren't gonna be in a big depression in 5 years. The economy is starting to heal itself already. If the bailout was so unsuccessful what do you suggest?
Okay, I'm going to go ahead and assume you didn't see that video I listed, which you really really should.
And yes, we are. What's happening right now is a temporary fix and with the inflation we're created, yes, it is going to get worse.
Please please, just watch the videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB-OhTfplYE
On the bailout itself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73rd4J2kt-M&feature=related - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBnZrXwXJHM&feature=related - Part 2
And a better idea, seriously, would have been to just do nothing and ride it out. We would have had a shorter and less intense depression.

And I wasn't knocking the books you've read, I'm just saying:
1.) Those books, while they may be great reads, offer no feedback to a lot of current events.
2.) I work about 90 hours every paycheck, I barely have time to sleep much less read a book. I'm not against books, I do enjoy a good read, I just do not have the time to do so.

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mechanicalsoul October 29 2008, 19:37:02 UTC
Oh, and better ideas here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiEoS3_u6S4&feature=related - Better ideas here

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