On Fandom Reactions
My Big Bang icon has never been so appropriate.
I know a lot of people are tired of hearing about this. But I haven't stopped thinking about it. And so I'm going to say even more about fandom and how we talk about things like the latest unfunny business. If you're not interested, please do scroll on by ( Read more... )
I know a lot of people are tired of hearing about this. But I haven't stopped thinking about it. And so I'm going to say even more about fandom and how we talk about things like the latest unfunny business. If you're not interested, please do scroll on by ( Read more... )
I stand by the rest of my opinions which basically were , Stow the wank, she apologized for her insensitivity and she was being punished. Blah blah blah.
I say that to say, see? She was white and viciously attacked but there was no discussion bout the manner in which people were talking to her about, her or about what. I think this discussion about racism got mush more attention and the author was attacked with more hatred. Is racism worse that sexual assault, or innuendo of such. I don't think so.
Being White does make a difference at times but not when the subject is race relations. I have learned a lot in your discussions but this goes back to my original point, it was taken too far and accusations of derailment and tone arguments were used to silence people with dissenting opinions.
Basically I was told "that is derailment STFU" or "that is a tone issuse" STFU" Not on your page, on others. That is one of the pointe I was trying to make in my original post. Though the people that were hurt should be taken into account apologized to and understood. The author should not have been "personally" attacked for making a mistake. She should have been educated. People say that the victims are not responsible for her education, if not them than who? If something offends you I think you should explain why. It helps for better communication and understanding and is MUCH more effective than hatred and name calling. It worked on me. The discussion on your journal is a prime example of how it could have been handled better.
Shutting up now.
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Stow the wank, she apologized for her insensitivity and she was being punished.
This is not about punishing the author. Telling someone that what they did is racist is not an attack. Saying "you're racist" is not an insult, or bullying, or abusive. It's simply telling someone a truth, one that they may not know, with the hopes that they will learn, and that they will stop being offensive, because it's hurtful. Please read this.
She was white and viciously attacked but there was no discussion bout the manner in which people were talking to her about, her or about what. I think this discussion about racism got mush more attention and the author was attacked with more hatred.
I would like to know where you were seeing these vicious attacks? Because I've been reading about this a LOT, following many, many links, and I am not seeing this anywhere. I was there at the very beginning, reading the master post when people were starting to object, and I saw the few anonymous commenters who called her horrible names. I agree that was wrong. But that was a long time ago (in internet time) and it was ONLY at the beginning, when emotions were running high and she wasn't even considering apologizing. Please read this.
it was taken too far and accusations of derailment and tone arguments were used to silence people with dissenting opinions.
The reason people were pointing out that your arguments were derailing and based tone is because the arguments that you were making come up and over and over and over again in discussions like these. People who talk about racism and anti-racism have heard them over and over again. And the reason they don't want to talk about them is because they are not relevant to the conversation. They are tactics to move the conversation away from what matters--the racist thing someone said or did and how to prevent it in the furture--to something unrelated, like whether they or not they are a racist deep in their hearts. Whether they are a racist is a not the point--the point is that they did something that was racist and they need to be held accountable for that. That's why people were shutting down. I'm sorry you felt silenced, but the truth is that most folks are just tired of dealing with this over and over again.
If your kid does something bad and you try to talk to them about it, and they try to distract you by talking about what they did at school that day, or what they want for supper, or even by telling you that they love you in hopes that you'll forget about what they did wrong and let them off the hook, are you going to put up with that? You still have deal with what happened, and it's your job as a parent to make sure that happens no matter what your child wants to happen.
As thinking, caring, sympathetic human beings, it's our JOB to point out when someone is hurting us (or other human beings) and try to stop it from happening in the future. That's the what the conversation is about and that's where people want it to stay.
Please read this.
(continued)
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It is our job to educate ourselves. And on the internet, it's so easy! There have been thousands and thousands and THOUSANDS of words written to explain all of these things. This is a good place to start, but there are lots of other places, too. These places have been linked over and over in the course of this conversation. If you choose not to click on them and read them, well...that's your choice.
And this comes back to the same reason that people didn't want to talk about derailing arguments. This happens over and over and over again. Imagine that you're having a conversation with like-minded people about a topic that concerns you. It's a fairly complicated topic, but you all have been studying for years, and you enjoy talking about it, or it's so important that you need to talk about it anyway. You use your own lingo, a verbal shorthand to describe complicated concepts, but you all know what the words mean. Could be physics or farming or fandom. Then, suddenly, someone barges into the conversation and says, "Hey, what are you talking about? What does that word mean? Oh, I don't think it means what you think it means. Why is this so important to you? You should be talking about something else. Oh, and also, you're wrong about absolutely everything you're saying."
This keeps happening again and again. And people get tired. It's not their job to teach this interupting person the basics because they decided to skip the 101 class, which is freely available for anyone to take if they really wanted to learn. This is why it's not the offended party's job to teach anyone.
I hope this helps you understand why people were curt with you in other places. If you want to keep talking about this, I'm happy to do that. Just let me know.
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